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American Fork Quickdraws on Route 66 and The Abyss Missing

Original Post
marc chagnon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 0

Sunday evening (9/29/13) I left draws on these two routes. I returned Tuesday (10/01/13) to find them gone. These were not 'booty' quickdraws up for whoever could finish the route (I would think anyone who has been climbing more than 3 months would understand this). As a travelling climber, sampling crags across the US, I have rarely witnessed such petty behavior, especially instances in which other climbers have been the perpetrators. Selfish, thoughtless behavior such as this weakens the climbing community; a community that has the potential to be an outstanding social network—to bring together individuals from all across the spectrum and create lasting friendships with people around the world. Please rectify your mistake and return the draws to me. They were mostly Spirit Quickdraws (the old ones), with several blue Oxygen Wildcountry quickdraws and perhaps one or two BD draws mixed in. Some had green and blue electrical tape (or tape residue, where the tape fell off). Message me on Mountainproject.

Marc

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

local ethics BRO, its booty

cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654
TR purist wrote:local ethics BRO, its booty
Funny that the dude from CT chimes in about local ethics here in the Wasatch.
It's stealing and not our ethic.....BRO.
Jack Sparrow · · denver, co · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 1,560

I for one am sry about your draws that sucks ive also had plenty STOLEN, and im sry for two for all the bullshit responses your going to get from this website. Dont be suprised when a bunch of people say how you deserved it. There was another thread similar to this and i was pretty shocked by the responses. No quickdraws are safe anywere.

Peter Jackson · · Rumney, NH · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 445
John Wilder wrote:These days I would expect any draws on any route under mid-13 to go missing pretty quick unless it was wicked steep.
I hope your draws get returned. I can't speak to the ethics out there, but where I climb out east, we'd assume your draws were project draws for at least a couple weeks.

And when they eventually did get stripped, there would be a post here offering to return them to you.

All that said: don't be too hard on the person who cleaned them. They probably meant well.
paintrain · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 75

This happens all the time. I will not choose either side of the stealing vs booty debate. There is enough of that. It has little to do with ethics as there is little consensus on this topic and you likely didn't leave a note saying you would be back for them.

1. I will say that it is LAZY to leave them there. And 2. Naive to think someone might not yank them when they lie close to easier routes that easily access your project from their anchors. Which, back to point 1, makes you even lazier for not cleaning them.

You can plea online to get them back, but don't be too bent if you don't see them again. You don't leave a nice bike for 2 nights in a public park and expect it to be there when you get back. Right or wrong, its not smart.

I would recommend better judgement next time and take responsibility for the lack of it here. Hopefully you will see your draws again in your pack.

Pt

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
cdec wrote: Funny that the dude from CT chimes in about local ethics here in the Wasatch. It's stealing and not our ethic.....BRO.
I bet I've done more routes in the Wasatch than you, of course living in LCC & SLC for almost 20 years helped a bit. Of course they werent thousands of gym climbers hitting the rock back then like there is now.
chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

I caught the thieves in the act:

cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654
TR purist wrote: I bet I've done more routes in the Wasatch than you, of course living in LCC & SLC for almost 20 years helped a bit.
Have NOT! And my dad could beat up your dad.

You lived here for 20 years and believe that they were booty? Not the consensus of the community that I have been a part of for the last 18 that I have been here. I, for one, am glad you moved. Now I only have to worry about the W. Valley gangsters breaking windows and the guys who took the draws. Oh and Tony C.

TR purist wrote: they werent thousands of gym climbers hitting the rock back then like there is now.
WTF does that have to do with anything related to the missing gear. Except of course that those you mention often have little sense of local climbing history, ethics community, or for that matter, common decency.
Bro! Who writes that in a sentence?
Spencer Weiler · · Grand Junction · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 2,668

Leaving your draws on a climb when you aren't there is lazy and risky. I would never take any draws off a climb unless they looked dangerous, but I would never leave my draws on a climb either. No gear is safe anywhere. I'm sometimes afraid to leave my backpack at the base of a multipitch climb for fear it will get taken.

Clean your draws, then put them back up. Its sport climbing. Placing draws is part of the deal.

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 888

The Abyss is easy to hang draws on. Warm up on Shallow Beginning or Deep End, and lower down The Abyss to hang your draws. That's the general scheme for that route. I'm guessing they left the fixed draw on top alone?

Dave Bingham · · Hailey, ID · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 72

Please don't take things that don't belong to you. This is a basic human ethic, not just a climbing ethic.

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245
dave bingham wrote:Please don't take things that don't belong to you. This is a basic human ethic, not just a climbing ethic.
so weird how many people don't seem to get this...
Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245
David Sahalie wrote:I caught the thieves in the act:
Now I know what my dog will be for halloween. thank you.

(but how to solve the pee and poo problem?).
paintrain · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 75
dave bingham wrote:Please don't take things that don't belong to you. This is a basic human ethic, not just a climbing ethic.
A value maybe. Cleaning up after yourself is more of an ethic IMO.

Once again to my argument - DON'T BE LAZY. It's irresponsible to not clean up after yourself. My parents made me clean up after myself as part of teaching me to be a decent human being.

Why would you complain when others clean up after you when you can't be bothered.

Pt
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

Ah the monthly I left my shit on a route, at the base or a route, or some other lame location over night and someone took it post.

Sorry you got your shit taken, yeah it ain't right but the climbing community ain't been a community for a very long time. If you leave for the day take your shit otherwise some one else will take your shit. To think otherwise is naive. I would think anyone who has been climbing more than 3 months would understand this.

PS Even if you are just cragging for the day pick your shit up so it does not look like damn yard sale.

user id · · SMOGden, UT · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 75
Allen Sanderson wrote:Ah the monthly I left my shit on a route, at the base or a route, or some other lame location over night and someone took it post. If you leave for the day take your shit otherwise some one else will take your shit
Does this apply to pins as well Allen?
chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

Climbers have a proud TRADition of stealing each other's gear. It is TRAD, and as such will stand the test of time. The Stonemasterbaters started it, so it is Holy Law.

Leave not, want not, bitches. It is like a Walking Dead world out there at the crags. Don't trust your fellow climber. Shoot first, ask questions later. Tis the 'Merikan way, esp in Mo-land.

Glenn Schuler · · Monument, Co. · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,330
David Sahalie wrote: Climbers have a proud TRADition of stealing each other's gear. It is TRAD
And what does TRAD have to do with anything about American Fork, a sport area? Your little rant seems misplaced.
chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

TRAD is the law of the climbing land handed down my the Stonemasters, who had a tradition of going around grabbing each other's booty.

50 years of booty grabbing is nothing to scoff at.

This TRADition continues today, sport area or no, the gods MUST have their booty sacrifice! Sport bows to Trad as it is the weaker, spineless, red-headed bastard.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Glenn Schuler wrote: And what does TRAD have to do with anything about American Fork, a sport area? Your little rant seems misplaced.
Dave thinks only traddies booty draws

quite possibly someone came to the crag in the hope of onsighting the routes(I know, unheard of in the sporting community) and they left them at the base where someone else picked them up. maybe they are at the gym in provo?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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