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Altered State 

YDS: 5.10+ French: 6b+ Ewbanks: 21 UIAA: VII+ ZA: 20 British: E3 5b

   
Type:  Trad, 1 pitch, 70'
Original:  YDS: 5.10 French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII- ZA: 19 British: E2 5b [details]
FA: Mclaughlin, Schuler
Page Views: 1,693
Submitted By: Kevin McLaughlin on Mar 25, 2008

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (24)
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Kevin at the crux.

Road & nearby private property MORE INFO >>>

Description 

Climb up and left to an undercling. Move up into a crack. This was originally ascended on gear. The two bolts were added later by the first ascentionists.

Protection 

Pro to 2", anchors.


Photos of Altered State Slideshow Add Photo
Rock Climbing Photo: Kevin in the thick of the crux.
Kevin in the thick of the crux.
Rock Climbing Photo: Kevin and Kevin.
Kevin and Kevin.
Rock Climbing Photo: Kevin Stricker topping out on Altered State.
Kevin Stricker topping out on Altered State.
Rock Climbing Photo: Kevin Mclaughlin entering the jug haul to the top.
Kevin Mclaughlin entering the jug haul to the top.

Comments on Altered State Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Sep 25, 2016
By Stefan Doucette
Apr 6, 2008

Great mixed route with two interesting cruxes. Very featured. You will need to put plenty of gear in before you get to the first bolt and also between the two bolts. I'll post a picture soon.
By DavidHH
From: Parker, Colorado
Sep 19, 2009
rating: 5.10+ 6b+ 21 VII+ 20 E3 5b

A very nice line. The bolts are placed perfectly through what I found to be both cruxes. Warm up on Daddy, and jump on it!
By Carolyn Pino
From: Denver, CO
Jun 10, 2016

You are definitely above your gear pulling thin crux moves getting to that first bolt. It's got that committing South Platte flavor. Don't blow the clip!
By Dan Mannix
Sep 6, 2016

See comment for Feeling the Void - they both share the same absurd first bolt. Tod Anderson should visit and fix these routes.

Dan Mannix
By Monty
Administrator
From: Golden, CO
Sep 6, 2016

HA! I just spit out some beer, Dan! I agree the bolt is higher than most are comfortable with (including myself), but grid bolting isn't "fixing" anything.
By Glenn Schuler
From: Monument, Co.
Sep 6, 2016
rating: 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

FWIW, I've seen a couple of people pitch off trying to get established on the rounded foothold, and they were fine.

So Dan, where do you think the first bolt should be? I bet if a majority of folks thought the bolt should be moved down 12" or whatever Kevin would be open to relocating it (maybe). No need to be a dick about it.

The problem is you either have to clip it low out of the undercling or commit to the face and stand up on the rounded footer. I feel the crux is the next section getting into the crack, and then the bolt might be too low for those hard moves.
By Dan Mannix
Sep 7, 2016

I'm not saying to grid bolt, I'm saying it should be bolted properly. The bolt cannot be clipped from the undercling. I'm glad you have observed someone surviving the fall. I've survived 10,000 of them over 41 years, but the bolt placement perversely forces the leader to take a risk out of "homage" to a ground up ascent. Why? A properly bolted climb is a thing of pleasure - and some risk. Once a bolt is placed, the first ascent party has decided to mitigate the risk. A dangerous bolted climb is a misnomer and a sign of poor route design.

PS. I owe you a beer Monty--don't be spitting out precious liquids on my account.
By Glenn Schuler
From: Monument, Co.
Sep 7, 2016
rating: 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

"I'm glad you have observed someone surviving the fall. I've survived 10,000 of them over 41 years."

OK, so I've been at it for 36 years. Nobody gives a shit.

"A dangerous bolted climb is a misnomer and a sign of poor route design."

I'd describe it as a 75' long, slightly spicy TRAD route with two bolts in no way to be confused with a safely bolted sport route. Not a single person that has commented/ticked the route on MP gives it an R or even a PG-13 rating. To say that it's a dangerous bolted climb is way off the mark, IMO.

You didn't answer my question, where would you have placed the bolt? If you put it in a clipping position from the undercling, you have what, 2 or 3 perfectly placed bomber cams at your waist. To put it a bit higher means committing to the sloper foothold and putting yourself "at some risk" (in your own words). We made a judgment call and did what we felt worked best.

Just a tidbit on the history of the route: Kevin lead the damn thing with no bolts at all originally (albeit following a different line, traversing left at the undercling & up through the seam). Me, my wife, and another partner were at the bottom belaying and chanting in unison.... Drill a bolt! Drill a bolt! Drill a bolt!

He wouldn't have any of it and continued to the top. We added the 2 bolts a few weeks later after I talked him into it.
By Dan Mannix
Sep 7, 2016

Glenn,
I meant no harm in my criticism. It just felt like a great route (actually 2 routes) were being made more dangerous than they needed to be by judiciously placing the bolt within reach - 18" lower - one can address the next moves. The swinging fall with pro well below your feet is not a pretty sight. I understand that you guys put up these routes with your homegrown ethics, and I respect that, but as future climbers explore the area you have developed, have some heart. They must survive the moderates to get to your testpieces.

Dan Mannix
By Glenn Schuler
From: Monument, Co.
Sep 8, 2016
rating: 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

Appreciate your thoughts & comments on the route, Dan. I'm not opposed to moving that bolt down, I'll talk to Kev & see what he thinks. Maybe a few more folks will chime in with their opinions, and we'll see what develops.

Cheers.
By Kevin Stricker
From: Evergreen, CO
Sep 16, 2016
rating: 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b

I think the route is fine as it is. It's foolish to treat the mixed routes at Thunder like sport routes, rescue is a long long way off. Climb in control, and leave your ego at the parking lot. Thunder Ridge is not for everyone. If you are looking for an outdoor gym experience, it's probably best to stay at Devil's Head.
By Pinklebear
Sep 17, 2016

Bolting is fine. Keep it spicy. Thunder Ridge 10+ is a beast to be feared and respected, which is part of the overall experience.
By Monty
Administrator
From: Golden, CO
4 days ago

If you're not comfortable with the moves getting to the first bolt, you can easily hang a 48 inch sling off of it on your way down from warming up on "Let's do it again Daddy." We tried that this weekend, and it seemed like a pretty good compromise to me :)

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