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Alpine draws versus quick draws
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By Keithb00ne
From Las Vegas, NV
Feb 25, 2014
Grand Teton

When sport climbing I use quick draws and when trad climbing I use alpine draws for their length adjustability. I also believe that the flexiblity in webbing on alpine draws keep my pieces from walking out of placement. Even with this reasoning, I see a lot of people using quick draws when trad climbing. Is there any advantage other than the space they take up on your rack?


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By doak
From boulder, co
Feb 25, 2014
Drinking with Moses

Everybody has their own trad racking preferences. Most are valid.

Personally, I rack all my cams on a single biner each, and clip the rope straight in if the climb is straight up. I carry lightweight draws for bolts, pins, nuts, or if there's a bit of weaving in the route. For longer extensions, I generally prefer slings over my shoulder with a single biner each, rather than long draws that are tripled up.


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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Feb 25, 2014
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

Keithb00ne wrote:
When sport climbing I use quick draws and when trad climbing I use alpine draws for their length adjustability. I also believe that the flexiblity in webbing on alpine draws keep my pieces from walking out of placement. Even with this reasoning, I see a lot of people using quick draws when trad climbing. Is there any advantage other than the space they take up on your rack?

I do think that using a stiff draw, like a Petzl, on some trad gear can be problematic. Like you said, the lack of flexibility can contribute to walking/lifting of gear. I do take them on gear climbs, but I am careful about where I use them.


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By Hiro
From Boulder, CO
Feb 25, 2014
Ouray Ice Park <br />Pick o' the Vic?

Meh, I just carry 1-2 because they are light, easier to clip and because I don't always need to extend. The only thing doak didn't mention is that they can be good when you don't need to extend, but you buried the cam and need a little length to clear the crack.

Probably a lot of us carry them just because we have a bunch of sport gear, so might as well use some of it. Rather than it being a purposeful purchase...


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By Ryan Watts
From Bishop, CA
Feb 25, 2014
Flatirons

I posted this same question a couple days ago: www.mountainproject.com/v/why-use-quickdraws-for-trad/108683>>>

You can read for yourself but basically the conclusion I came to was that there really isn't any reason to have quick draws as part of your "standard" trad rack.

Of course as with all trad climbs, the more you know about the route the more you can "optimize" beforehand. Clipping the pin ladder on Yellow Spur in Eldo? Bring draws. Dead vertical crack with lots of nut placements? Bring draws.

Long multipitch route where you really don't know exactly what you'll end up needing? Probably just alpine draws / shoulder slings.

Not gonna lie though, I still bring draws just because I already own them and figure why not?


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By doak
From boulder, co
Feb 25, 2014
Drinking with Moses

The BD Oz draws are sooo lightweight, and they're pretty slim on the gear loops. The weight penalty is really small for the versatility and convenience that they offer. I usually bring a half dozen, (plus slings/biners) unless I have specific gear beta.


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By SlowTrad
From St Paul, MN
Feb 26, 2014

I always bring some of both...but all of my draws are the non-dogbone variety and are 12" long.


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By Tronald Dump
Apr 30, 2014

I generally only bring quickdraws on trad climbs for clipping nuts. to rope, or long draws. keeps me from having to carry loose biners on my harness


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By David Gibbs
From Ottawa, ON
May 1, 2014

Hiro wrote:
Probably a lot of us carry them just because we have a bunch of sport gear, so might as well use some of it. Rather than it being a purposeful purchase...


Yup, this.


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By J. Serpico
From Saratoga County, NY
May 1, 2014

I supplement with longer draws and place them where I have no need to extend the alpine draw. I even carry a screamer or two for small nut placements or pitons.

I don't think most trad climbers have a lot of need for a rack of sport draws, but supplementing with them to fill out the rack, lighten the rack or just because there are placements you probably have no need to extend probably isn't a bad idea.


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By slim
Administrator
May 1, 2014
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

it completely depends on the route i am climbing. if i know it will be primarily consistent cracks with very little need for longer slings, i will bring mostly QD's and a couple slings. this is nice because it minimizes the mess a bit.

on the other hand, if the pitches are going to wander a bunch and i know that rope drag will be a concern, i will bring almost all runners.


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By coldfinger
May 2, 2014

Well, QDs are far less of a clusterfuck on your harness (or all the hassle extending and clipping when the climbing gets real pushy) when you need a lot of them! There is a lot to be said for keeping a neat rack. Bulky tangly slings suck and can ensnare all sorts of things including other slings and pieces of gear. Alpine slings are one of those things that are good on paper but can be a PITA in practice, especially when wearing gloves in tough conditions. Icy extendo slings really suck!

Tend to carry a few extendos and a few shoulder slings to keep it neater.

If you place good gear, which is what you should be doing, not much to worry about it falling out over and extra 12 inches of runner.

Then theres all the wasted time fumbling around extending and shortening etc over a lot of pitches on a long climb.

Rope drag is best managed by being mindful of when you need gear or not and where you place it imhe.


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By coldfinger
May 2, 2014

And for the love of god: do not put Petzl Strings, rubber keeprs or tape on the clipping biner on an open sling! There is a reason dogbones are sewn the way they are....

Get the rigging wrong on extendos or a biner clipping a strand by itself and fail to catch that and all that is holding you is that rubber or tape.

Death link


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By whitewalls
May 14, 2014

Keithb00ne wrote:
When sport climbing I use quick draws and when trad climbing I use alpine draws for their length adjustability. I also believe that the flexiblity in webbing on alpine draws keep my pieces from walking out of placement. Even with this reasoning, I see a lot of people using quick draws when trad climbing. Is there any advantage other than the space they take up on your rack?


I take and quite often use both. If I'm climbing say a crack that doesn't wander too much then quick draws are fine. If I need to zigzag or traverse with a single rope then alpines can be handy. Different again for double-rope climbing, for me. Personal preference is all it is.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
May 14, 2014
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

For a draw that's short and floppy and behaves more like an alpine draw, the BD Positron draws are great. The longer ones are about the same length as a tripled single length alpine draw. Really thin dogbone.


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