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Redgarden - Tower One
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Better Layton Never S 
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Parting Shot T,S 
Phallus In Suck-It-Land T 
Pigeon Crack T 
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Roll Over Rover T 
Rosy II - (In Memory Of Layton Kor) T,S 
Rover T 
Ruper T 
Ruper to Grand Giraffe T 
Short Arm Inspection. T 
Smoke & Mirrors T 
Song of the Dodo T,TR 
South Face of Tower One T 
Super Slab T 
Superspar T 
Three Old Farts Young at Heart T 
To RP or not to Be T 
Untouchables, The S 
Vertigo T 
West Arete (of T1), The T 
Without A Net T 
Yellow Fellow T 
Yellow Spur, The T 
Ytrid Deed, The T 

Alice in Bucketland 

YDS: 5.8+ French: 5b Ewbanks: 16 UIAA: VI- ZA: 15 British: HVS 4c R

   
Type:  Trad, 2 pitches, Grade II
Consensus:  YDS: 5.8+ French: 5b Ewbanks: 16 UIAA: VI- ZA: 15 British: HVS 4c [details]
FA: [Scott Woodruff & Dan Hare, 1976]
Page Views: 9,689
Submitted By: Charles Vernon on Feb 19, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (93)
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Layton Kor hanging out at the belay.
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  • Description 

    This exciting route presents a definite crux at the roof on the second pitch, but remains sustained the whole way. Both pitches are pretty spicey. Nearly all of the holds are huge, and the climbing is vertical or overhanging. Do any route that reaches the Upper Ramp to get to the base; the climb would make a fitting finale for Rosy Crucifixion. A huge cave/overhang sits near the upper part of the ramp, just left of the upper pitches of Ruper; above it is a pocketed wall and another prominent roof band. The route starts at the right side of the cave.

    Pitch one: Climb up an easy ramp to the right margin of the overhang, which at this point is a blind corner. Place protection overhead in the curving roof/dihedral and feel around the corner for the proper place to get established on the face (scary 5.8). An astute runout back to the left will be necessary to prevent horrendous rope drag. Follow a crack/seam steadily up left, with reasonable protection, and belay down and left from the apex of the upper roof (variable number of pins). Don't be fooled (as I was) by the line of huge holds just above the cave; they lead to some very dangerous climbing if one is to stay on route.

    Pitch two: Traverse up and right from the hanging belay, and turn the roof (crux, small gear at your feet) right of its apex, where it begins to bend down to the right. Work up and slightly left over a steep wall into an obtuse left-facing corner which provides an exciting finale; belay above. A considerably more mellow fifty feet finds the top (shared with Ruper). Go west to the rappel (described under Ruper, Yellow Spur, etc.) or east to the east slabs descent.


    Protection 

    Standard rack, a #3 Camalot or the like could come in handy.



    Photos of Alice in Bucketland Slideshow Add Photo
    BETA PHOTO
    Matt Lloyd  Onsight free soloing w/ rope. Linking the start of Alice to Upper Ruper.
    Matt Lloyd Onsight free soloing w/ rope. Linking ...
    Tim starting off P2.
    Tim starting off P2.
    ROOF 2
    ROOF 2
    Following pitch 1
    Following pitch 1
    Over the roof and all smiles on pitch 1.
    Over the roof and all smiles on pitch 1.
    The pitch 2 roof
    The pitch 2 roof
    Lin Murphy at the hanging belay at the top of P1, 1-9-10.
    BETA PHOTO: Lin Murphy at the hanging belay at the top of P1, ...
    BETA PHOTO
    Tony Bubb leads past the first roof on Alice In Bucketland, on Eldo's Redgarden Wall. 40-50 MPH winds give the rope an interesting curve. <br /> <br />Photo by Sarah Shull in the mid '90s.
    Tony Bubb leads past the first roof on Alice In Bu...
    Moving up the buckets.
    Moving up the buckets.
    Joseffa Meir follows the classic First Pitch of 'Alice in Bucketland (5.8) on upper Redgarden Wall. Photo by Tony Bubb, 2004.
    Joseffa Meir follows the classic First Pitch of 'A...
    The Crux pitch two roof of Alice in Bucketland. Climber- Dale Remsberg
    The Crux pitch two roof of Alice in Bucketland. Cl...
    Photo taken looking straight up under the first roof with Brent safely at the belay under the second roof. The second pitch traverses from the belay to the right side of the roof. Place small cam and commit.
    Photo taken looking straight up under the first ro...
    Mark making it look easy at the first roof.
    Mark making it look easy at the first roof.
    Trevor Nydam on the runout traverse.
    Trevor Nydam on the runout traverse.
    Jonny on P1 of Alice.
    Jonny on P1 of Alice.
    Trevor resting on pitch one.
    Trevor resting on pitch one.
    Tim on P1.
    Tim on P1.
    Trevor pulling the roof on pitch 2.
    Trevor pulling the roof on pitch 2.
    Scott and Jackie on Alice in Bucketland on 2/2/13.
    Scott and Jackie on Alice in Bucketland on 2/2/13.
    Comments on Alice in Bucketland Add Comment
    Show which comments
    Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Jun 29, 2014
    By Patrick Vernon
    From: Albuquerque, NM
    Jan 1, 2001

    The second roof on this climb is a little hairy; stiff for the grade without reliable protection.

    By Kristo torgersen
    Aug 1, 2001

    It really is a "bucketland"! Go see for yourself!

    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Jan 14, 2002
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    The gear is good and frequent enough to be "safe" but not frequent enough to prevent a long fall. The second roof probably could produce a frightening result, as could the first pitch, but I don't think people would be SERIOUSLY injured if they place the available protection.

    2 sets of 1.5" to 3.5" cams would help in the first pitch.

    I agree that a 5.8 leader should not be on it, but if you feel good on 5.8 and are mentally solid, I don't think 5.10 ability is prerequisite.

    By Chris Dawson
    From: Denver, CO
    Feb 8, 2002

    Just did this route again a couple days ago. My partner and I have decided that this is potentially the best route of it's grade anywhere. Anyone disagree?

    By Richard M. Wright
    From: Lakewood, CO
    Feb 8, 2002

    Better than the Durrance route on the Grand? Or, better than the Standard Route on Cima Grande at Cinque Torre?

    By Chris Dawson
    From: Denver, CO
    Feb 9, 2002

    Are those .8 "+"? I wasn't sure. I'm sure you're right though Richard. How about in Eldo...

    By Bill Wright
    Apr 1, 2002

    No, Richard isn't right. Because the Cima Grande isn't at Cinque Torre! It is at the Tre Cime de Laverado. At least the famous Cima Grande of the "Six Great North Faces of the Alps" fame.

    Perhaps the Cinque Torre also has a Cima Grande...

    By Chris Dawson
    From: Denver, CO
    May 16, 2002

    Just a quick comment on the wasp situation at the first belay. It seems that about a million wasps make their home behind the flake that contains the two pin anchor. Unless you are accustomed to having wasps crawling all over you while belaying, I'd recommend avioding this route until it gets cold again. I suppose one could combine the first two pitches, but I'm not sure where a decent belay could be had over the second roof. I had to downclimb the pitch to above the first roof and then climb over to Ruper.

    By Ivan Rezucha
    From: Fort Collins, CO
    Jan 12, 2003

    You don't have to run it out above the first roof to avoid rope drag. I used a double length sling before swinging right around the first roof. Getting situated after the roof is a little scary, but you can place a good #3/blue Camalot at the "rail". You can clip this short, and the rope will run fine, assuming you didn't place gear until you got to the roof. This was the first time I've done the route, and I had a hard time staying calm. There's enough gear, maybe every 10 feet or so, but much of it is not inspiring.

    I followed the second pitch and, looking for an easier way, swung right around the roof onto a sloping ledge (similar to the pitch 1 move). Don't do this! It's hard, and there are no good handholds after you swing right. Then it's really hard moving left to get back on the normal line.

    By Leo Paik
    Administrator
    From: Westminster, Colorado
    Apr 3, 2003

    P1. There is a little edge/flake on the lip of the roof that can catch & provide ample rope drag. Look down & check the rope after you clear the roof. Also, a #3 Camalot piece is near-essential just after clearing the roof to avoid ground fall potential. There are two pins at the belay anchor. P2 has 2 pins in the L-facing dihedral near its top. You can belay at the 1st of the pins. Descent: Just L by perhaps 100 feet or so is the rap down Chockstone Chimney (1x30m). This leaves you at the top of the descent line L of Vertigo or at the top of the ramp you can descend to the Naked Edge raps (3x25m).

    By XOG
    Apr 10, 2003

    There's an easier variation to the second pitch. Instead of going right and pulling the 5.8+ roof with tricky protection, you can go left from the hanging belay and wander up mostly 5.7 terrain with reasonable protection (a bit run-out but regularly spaced pro) and solid lichen-covered rock. I've done it both ways and actually find the left variation just as enjoyable because of the route-finding and the consistent difficulty.

    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Apr 21, 2003
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    The [variatio Ivan mentions above is called Phallus in Suck-It-Land and is a Rossiter climb. Furthermore, you can duck out left and diagonal up and left at a angle 35 degrees from straight up (in a line contiguous with pitch 1) and arrive at the single bolt belay of Upper Grand Giraffe. I did this in 1996 (Bubb/Thompson or Bubb/Peters) and again yesterday. I called this Talus in Duck-It-Land at the time due to a large rock that popped off. It is mostly easy climbing as well and from either left-hand variation of 'Alice' you can reach to top of the wall in about 60m even.

    Great route, one of the best at its grade in Eldo.

    It is a little powerful here and there, and the only devious move is the second roof, which can be skipped to the left as mentioned if you feel marginal on this route "Tallus In Duck-It-Land" is the easiest variation.

    The cord on the belay under the second roof (the first belay) is really terrible as of 4/20/03. I replaced the belay slings on 9/25/04, they are presently bomber, but on two old, yet decent pins. The old cord can now be cut, but was not because it was intertwined into my belay when I replaced it- not so simple to do at the time. Although I would not hesitate at present to rap off of the new set-up, it would still be advisable to back the thing up if you are belaying on it, due to the probable direction of force in the event of a fall from the crux. The old cord was expertly placed to be redundant due to the knot and should be closely replicated.

    By Dale Remsberg
    Sep 17, 2003

    Just a quick comment about the descent beta givin above. You are practicaly at the top of the east slab descent. Just walk off!! If is much safer then all the rapping!!

    By Scott Conner
    From: Lyons, CO
    Sep 17, 2003

    Dale - The East Slabs descent is not a walk-off. It's a long down-climb. Many would argue that it's not safer than rapping. I've done it both ways and prefer to use the Chockstone Chimney and Vertigo raps. I know of at least one person to die on the east slabs descent after getting caught in the rain.

    By Lon Black
    Oct 16, 2003

    What a route! Both roof sequences rock.

    As of the middle of October, there were still a ton of bees at the belay station under the second roof.

    By Cassidy Hill
    Jun 28, 2004

    This is in response to tonys comment above. Last I checked (5/ 04) both pins in this anchor were pretty shady and the left one could be removed by hand. I would have taken it, but it was tied into the anchor with a tattered old cord and I didnt have my knife. The best belay is above the second roof on a ledge over a short obtuse dihederal. Great route, have fun.

    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Jun 28, 2004
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    OK, but as of June 26, the pins were OK. I'd suspect that the left pin loose was caused by a crux fall- which would pull the left pin out torqued to the right. Someone musta hammered it back in. Nonetheless, maybe I'll put a nice long angle in up & to the right of the existing two to make it bomber next time I am up there. Is there a community consensus on that? Seems like a reasonable thing, to replace an old placement if people feel that the historical belay is poor. Then again, you can back it up on gear, so people nervous can also just leave a stopper and sling too.

    By Jim Amidon
    Sep 26, 2004

    Second time on this baby, and folks it doesn't get much better, steep, juggy and nothing but fun.A little bit of a hair raiser pulling the roof, but it all goes and wow, have fun.......

    By Michael Amato
    Jun 7, 2005

    This climb is not to be missed! Steep rock, dramatic setting, esthetic climbing and exciting cruxes. From the first belay, it's one long 60 meter pitch to the top, using all but about ten feet of the rope.

    By Stich
    From: Colorado Springs, Colorado
    Jun 19, 2005

    Quite an excellent route! Even better than Ruper. The two pin belay can be easily supplemented with gear in a much better crack just above and to the right. The pins are driven behind a block that is funky looking, in that it has fissures and cracks all the way through it. Definitely use gear in the crack, too. While you are here, you can pose the question to your partner, "Suck it or bucket?"

    By Trevor Nydam
    Sep 12, 2005

    Excellent route. Agreed, stiff for the grade and the "s" rating is legit. Pro placement requires some creativity. There is good gear just below each crux, but a fall after each roof will send you for a whip. Dont let the rope get caught under the left leg. Backup the hanging belay with gear as described. T Nydam

    By Shane Zentner
    From: Colorado
    Apr 16, 2007

    Indeed, the 'S' rating is correct while pulling the roofs/corners on both pitches. Both roofs are committing, falling is not an option as a fall would be nasty. The grade felt right to me, just a bit scary.

    By Guy H.
    From: Fort Collins CO
    Apr 25, 2007
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    The wasps are back at the P1 belay. It was easy enough to redirect the hanging belay to the right with a couple small cams. They didn't seem aggressive.

    By Johnny D
    From: Fort Collins, CO
    Oct 7, 2007

    Did this route with Danny I. as a Rosy linkup we're dubbing "Rosy Alice". Alice is the perfect 5.8 route for one who is a comfortable 5.10 leader in Eldo. The moves pulling the roofs on both pitches were blind and committing and there was fairly regular 20-30 ft run out sections. The route was easily done to the top of the saddle in two pitches with good runners.

    Note: The bees/wasps were in full effect as 10/7 at the 1st belay.

    By Dr. Evil
    From: Boulder, CO
    Nov 10, 2007
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    There are no wasps on the route as of today.

    Gear beta: there are two great yellow Alien placements just before the crux 2nd pitch roof.

    By Brian Adzima
    From: the Paris of Appalachia
    Feb 24, 2008

    As of 2/24/2008 there is only one pin at the belay.

    By tooTALLtim
    From: Boulder, CO
    Mar 24, 2008

    Still no wasps, just damn awesome climbing.

    By Greg D
    From: Here
    Apr 30, 2008

    No bees as of 4/28/08. Only one pin at first belay. Other gear options definitely exist for the anchor. Good natural anchor is not a problem. Me and my partner (about 400lbs +) enjoyed a hanging belay off of the pin, a #0.5 Camalot (a #0.75 Camalot may work as well) and a finger size nut, each piece in a separate rock feature, nicely equalized. Excellent route!

    By Buzz
    From: Boulder
    Jun 14, 2008

    If one had those two roofs dialed, 5.8+ might seem right, but onsite I'm willing to say those roofs are niners. The commitment factor of those moves, and the continuous steepness elsewhere, make this a remarkable route. Doubling up on 1" and 2" would really help on P1, and plenty of small stuff for P2.

    By jack roberts
    Jun 14, 2008

    Buzz,

    I think you've been climbing in the gym too much. This route is no more difficult that 5.8, even by today's standards. Maybe you are making the entry move from the roof onto the face above in a difficult place but grading this climb 5.9 is way off.

    By Mic Fairchild
    From: Boulder
    Sep 4, 2008

    I first did this route as a free-solo in 1986 and considered it default 5.8 (as there was no 5.9 on it). I did it again last week and have to stand by that assessment. While it's a bit scary at the second roof, my opinion of the technical difficulty stands. Tri-cams have worked well when I've led it, but still runout for the grade. Psych factor not withstanding, an excellent route.

    Interesting discussion on the best 5.8. Alice might be up there. Sounds like the makings of a fun thread. Via Mirriam (Standard Route) on the Cinque Cima Grande is pretty sweet, RW. Pingora, Pear Buttress, and Bonne Homme Variation might make my list too.

    By George Squibb
    From: Boulder, CO
    Jan 19, 2009

    With a little bit of 4th classing (20ft or so), a 70m cord, and long slings you can do the whole thing in one long pitch....

    By rob bauer
    From: Golden, CO
    Oct 9, 2010

    Still only one pin at the sling belay. Pin is good; a big nut works well for hanging there, but gosh, I woulda sure liked to have had a 0.75 Camalot in the crack above for ultimate peace of mind. Great route!

    By J Antin
    From: Denver, CO
    Apr 16, 2011
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    Climbed today with D.S. An exceptional route! Update: 1 pin @ the P2 hanging belay and a full army of hornets. The hornets were high in numbers but very passive, and they left us alone.

    Ah, what a great climb!

    By James Hulett
    From: Boulder, Colorado
    Jun 17, 2011
    rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c R

    Fun stuff. Both the roofs were super fun, almost swing moves on jugs. a fitting name for the climb. Didn't bring enough water for this hot afternoon climb and became super dehydrated, so I didn't enjoy it as much as I would have if I had more water. Great climb.

    By fossana
    From: Bishop, CA
    Jun 13, 2012

    Far better in exposure and rock quality than the upper pitches of Ruper. The upper ramp is full of ticks. Fortunately Ryan belayed P1 ;)

    By John Marsella
    From: Berthoud, CO
    Nov 21, 2012

    11-21-12: No hymenoptera nor pins at the belay, though I could have not been looking well enough.

    Also, I was able to get plenty of pro in p1 (some may have been more psychological than functional) with little drag, using slings judiciously.

    By D Sharp
    From: Boulder, CO
    Jun 29, 2014

    Definitely no pins, or tat (per latest Levin book and what my partner remembered from a year ago) for the P1 hanging belay... you're gonna have to build your own. Awesome big nut out left, trucker 0.75 overhead, and a grey X4 to the right will get you a belay you could hang a submarine off of - you will have to, however, cast off without those pieces (and anything else you happened to throw in there).

    Also, if you are considering doing it in two pitches with a 60m, do not use the rope to equalize the pieces: you'll need all but 10-15 feet of it to get to the top.