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Adding/moving bolts at Stone Mountain NC
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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Dec 9, 2013
Meme guy

Stay outside the OW and it's easy as fawkkkk


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Dec 10, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

its been a while but entrance crack is pretty easy offwidth and all. You can just go hiking inside the crack


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By SexPanther aka Kiedis
Dec 10, 2013
Thumbtastic

Let's go reduce the challenge for everybody!

Just kidding. Not crystal lizard, not this decade. Won't be forgetting that fall anytime soon.

I remember gumbying up entrance crack no prob because a rattlesnake had taken up residence in the 8 nearby, dirty crack maybe? Didn't have any wide gear and didn't notice any real difficulty. Ten years ago though..


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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Dec 10, 2013
Meme guy

Yeh it's true entrance crack really isn't that hard at all, it's the runout that gets people.

Either way, way more touristards die falling off the mountain than climbers. Add in the fact that they also fall down the waterfall and being a touristard becomes the park's deadliest activity.


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By Kyle Kimball
From Asheville, NC
Dec 10, 2013
J Clarks

Russ Keane wrote:
Hah- I really did start all this! Clearly I was not (too) serious. I am a traditionally minded climber, and while I love sport climbing, and even mixed routes, it would be silly to go around and put a bolt on all the hard cruxes out there. But in all honesty, should Entrance Crack really be rated a 5.4? There are 5.11 climbers on this thread who said they won't go back on it. I think it's misleading at that rating. And like it or not, there are tons of "newbies" in this sport who are going to flock to climbs like Great Arch. Someone is seriously going to get hurt. With that amount of run-out, and such a strange off-width crack, it's deserving of something higher. Sorry to hi-jack a good discussion. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.


Entrance Crack seemed just as hard, if not harder than The Pulpit, which is a 5.8. I probably won't get back on it either- it's certainly not hard, but it is pretty sketchy and weird. When we were there we saw a party back off at the first tree on EC, and I can't blame them if they are new climbers.


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By Jonathan Dull
From NC High County
Dec 10, 2013
Edge of a Dream

Entrance Crack was my first lead at Stone and I've never climbed it since. I climbed left of the off-width and had to step over the crack to finish. I don't really recall why I did it that way, I just remember being pretty terrified as I looked down and saw my sling around that tree, knowing I would deck if I messed it up. I usually climb Dirty Crack to gain the ledge. I agree a bolt may mitigate an accident in the future, I don't agree with putting one the route though. Maybe putting an RX rating on MP or in the NC select Climbing book would keep people from getting into trouble. I understand it can be easily protected, but lets face it who brings Big Bro's and BD #6's to Stone, or anywhere in NC for that matter. Especially a new trad climber, not usally the first pieces you purchase for NC trad climbing.


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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Dec 10, 2013
Meme guy

I really don't understand how people can think its sandbagged that much. I've seen people toprope it and say its 5.5 at best. There are decent ways to protect EC before the runout if you're creative.


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By Jonathan Dull
From NC High County
Dec 10, 2013
Edge of a Dream

Meme Guy wrote:
I really don't understand how people can think its sandbagged that much. I've seen people toprope it and say its 5.5 at best. There are decent ways to protect EC before the runout if you're creative.


I agree, I dont think its sandbagged. But I can see where it may feel more difficult for someone new to slab.

How do you protect it once the OW starts Meme Guy?


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By 5.samadhi
Dec 10, 2013
me

Russ Keane wrote:
Hah- I really did start all this! Clearly I was not (too) serious. I am a traditionally minded climber, and while I love sport climbing, and even mixed routes, it would be silly to go around and put a bolt on all the hard cruxes out there. But in all honesty, should Entrance Crack really be rated a 5.4? There are 5.11 climbers on this thread who said they won't go back on it. I think it's misleading at that rating. And like it or not, there are tons of "newbies" in this sport who are going to flock to climbs like Great Arch. Someone is seriously going to get hurt. With that amount of run-out, and such a strange off-width crack, it's deserving of something higher. Sorry to hi-jack a good discussion. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

maybe some people like doing an activity where there is the possibility for getting injured if you do not have the requisite level of skill/fitness/finesse. Your assumption that we all want every climb to be as safely as possibly engineered is not necessarily true.

Keep things sketchy!


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By rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Dec 10, 2013
Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protect between Bolt 2/3 just post crux . <br /> <br />Picture credit goes to eric Singleton, and many thanks to Josh Bagget for the great belay.

Jonathan Dull wrote:
Especially a new trad climber


part of the problem with this discussion is the thought and belief that every 5.8 is the same difficulty, but if you're a new 5.8 climber you most likely have a very narrow skill set - being able to jug haul 5.8 at your local gym. So until you develop a plethora of climbing under your belt on different rock and types you're really not in a position to judge difficulty other than it was difficult for you. And frankly if you don't bring the correct gear for a route you know needs big gear - well then yea.

You is being used in a general sense not you specifically Jon.


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By nbrown
From western NC
Dec 10, 2013
Top of Shortoff with the Bonsai

Jonathan Dull wrote:
I agree, I dont think its sandbagged. But I can see where it may feel more difficult for someone new to slab. How do you protect it once the OW starts Meme Guy?


Protects with a small cam as mentioned on the EC description page -- comments section. I don't know why but most people seem to miss this perfectly positioned placement.


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By Russ Keane
Dec 10, 2013
Where's Waldo?

"Your assumption that we all want every climb to be as safely as possibly engineered is not necessarily true."


Well, that wasn't quite what I was saying. Like I said, I prefer (and defer to) the most traditional styles of ground-up climbing. Sport climbing is kind of a "dirty habit" -- It's not the True Way.

So while I agree that the sketchiness of pure climbing is what makes it pure (and perhaps fun and exhilerating), the difference with Entrance Crack is that it's situated beneath a famous 5.5 moderate multi-pitch that people are going to flock to. So you show up and you need a way to gain the ledge. EC apepars to be the most moderate way.... It may be the only way for you... The experience of runout off-width/slab moves 50 feet above your last protection may not be what you had in mind, or what you want. Sure, it made you a better climber, and gave you a story to tell (read: borderline epic), but it's not consistent with the climb you are seeking, Great Arch say.

Your argument that some people "like doing an activity where there is the possibility for getting injured" is fine -- I get it, but this EC climb is forced upon those who are in fact in the OPPOSITE camp. It's not an optional side pitch, to be tried "if you want it".

Maybe the thing to do is tag Great Arch with an explicit warning that it starts 100 feet up and is only accessible through a minimum climbing grade of 5.6X or higher.


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By Jonathan Dull
From NC High County
Dec 10, 2013
Edge of a Dream

nbrown wrote:
Protects with a small cam as mentioned on the EC description page -- comments section. I don't know why but most people seem to miss this perfectly positioned placement.


Cool deal, maybe I'll try out EC next time I'm out there. I'm sure I'd see the placement now. Last time I climbed it was years ago, while I was still a trad newbie. I had one C3 and a #2, proceeded to climb No Alternative. That was an awesome day, I felt so accomplished after topping it out!


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By Emil Briggs
Dec 10, 2013

It's been so long since I was on it that I don't recall for sure but I vaguely remember placing a cam. That was back when I had just started climbing and while I don't recall being particularly scared I do remember it just wasn't much fun.

I think U-slot is a better choice for new leaders. The crux and the bottom section are both well protected. There is a runout bit in the middle but it's on really easy ground. The 5.7 grade probably scares beginners off though.


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By Kyle Kimball
From Asheville, NC
Dec 10, 2013
J Clarks

Jonathan Dull wrote:
Cool deal, maybe I'll try out EC next time I'm out there. I'm sure I'd see the placement now. Last time I climbed it was years ago, while I was still a trad newbie. I had one C3 and a #2, proceeded to climb No Alternative. That was an awesome day, I felt so accomplished after topping it out!


I was able to get a pink tricam in there, but it still wasn't very far from the tree.


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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Dec 10, 2013
Meme guy

nbrown wrote:
Protects with a small cam as mentioned on the EC description page -- comments section. I don't know why but most people seem to miss this perfectly positioned placement.


Yup! And there used to be an old bolt that you could sling with a nut but I'm not sure if it's still there as I haven't been looking for it. #2 TCU will slide into the slot on the side of the crack about 1/3 of the way up which is basically next to the old bolt. I remember someone traversing over to another route and placing pro on that route before returning to EC.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Dec 10, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Russ Keane wrote:
"Your assumption that we all want every climb to be as safely as possibly engineered is not necessarily true." Well, that wasn't quite what I was saying. Like I said, I prefer (and defer to) the most traditional styles of ground-up climbing. Sport climbing is kind of a "dirty habit" -- It's not the True Way. So while I agree that the sketchiness of pure climbing is what makes it pure (and perhaps fun and exhilerating), the difference with Entrance Crack is that it's situated beneath a famous 5.5 moderate multi-pitch that people are going to flock to. So you show up and you need a way to gain the ledge. EC apepars to be the most moderate way.... It may be the only way for you... The experience of runout off-width/slab moves 50 feet above your last protection may not be what you had in mind, or what you want. Sure, it made you a better climber, and gave you a story to tell (read: borderline epic), but it's not consistent with the climb you are seeking, Great Arch say. Your argument that some people "like doing an activity where there is the possibility for getting injured" is fine -- I get it, but this EC climb is forced upon those who are in fact in the OPPOSITE camp. It's not an optional side pitch, to be tried "if you want it". Maybe the thing to do is tag Great Arch with an explicit warning that it starts 100 feet up and is only accessible through a minimum climbing grade of 5.6X or higher.


If you show up not knowing that you have to climb a pitch to get to the Great Arch, then you haven't done your homework. Having said that, I think that both U Slot and Block Route are about a 5.5/5.6 with ONE move at the posted grade. The move on U Slot is pasting a toe on the right side of the "slot" and rocking your weight onto it. For block route, it's a tenuous move over the lip of the arete.

Nothing is forced upon anyone. Nothing needs to be tagged with an explicit warning about anything. It's outdoor climbing on slab. That's your warning. Maybe it's just me, but if I'm going somewhere to do multi pitch, I do a bit of research before I go. The greener you are, the more research you should do.


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By David Barbour
From Charlotte, NC
Dec 10, 2013

Meme Guy wrote:
Yup! And there used to be an old bolt that you could sling with a nut but I'm not sure if it's still there as I haven't been looking for it. #2 TCU will slide into the slot on the side of the crack about 1/3 of the way up which is basically next to the old bolt. I remember someone traversing over to another route and placing pro on that route before returning to EC.


so why not replace the bolt?

but yeah like jake said, block route and u slot are way reasonable


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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Dec 10, 2013
Meme guy

It was bolted after the FA. Chop chop.

Yes, u-slot and block route are all pretty easy climbs and I've watched a lot of people put up their first lead on those two.


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By nbrown
From western NC
Dec 10, 2013
Top of Shortoff with the Bonsai

That so-called bolt is only a fairly recent occuence (as in the last decade or so). In years past, things like that didn't last more than a day. There are at least 4 old chopped bolts at that same spot though. And the 'bolt' is (as far as I remember) simply where someone just screwed a capscrew/machine head of some sort into a preexisting drop-in type of sleeve.


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By Todd Wells
Dec 11, 2013

I would add my voice to those against adding bolts to the EC. The face to the right of the crack is easy and fun, rated maybe 5.4. It was commonly soloed by non-elite climbers with non-sticky rubber in bygone era of non-gym climbers. Why democratize the sport to the point of meaninglessness?


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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Dec 12, 2013
Meme guy

Todd Wells wrote:
I would add my voice to those against adding bolts to the EC. The face to the right of the crack is easy and fun, rated maybe 5.4. It was commonly soloed by non-elite climbers with non-sticky rubber in bygone era of non-gym climbers. Why democratize the sport to the point of meaninglessness?


Nailed it! Pun intended.


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By Neil Rankin
From Greensboro, NC
Dec 12, 2013
Looking down from the top of pitch 3 on Rights of Spring, Pine Creek Canyon, CA.

Don't add bolts to existing routes. Get better, bolder, or take up tennis or golf.


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By Adam Paashaus
From North Carolina
Dec 12, 2013
After you get done climbing be sure to head up to the summit for sunset. Its only a 10 minute walk from the main wall. Don't forget your headlamp.

I got in over my head and got scared on entrance crack bitd. It will put the feer in you, and I think that is a good thing. The peron who gets scared on EC will know better than to jump on mercury's thinking its "just" a 9. Though, I did jump on great white way pretty early. But I knew just what to expect.


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By Scott Phil
From NC
Dec 12, 2013

An additional bolt(s) should not be added to the Entrance Crack. Alternative routes are available, including those that are better protected than EC. For the first-time visitor to Stone, the run-out section is an easy introduction to what awaits above.

Regarding making climbs "safe" for the novice leader--bad idea. Part of learning to climb is gaining a realistic self-assessment of your own abilities, learning how to stay calm when things get run out, and knowing how to down climb when you have to. Adding bolts to established routes does not help accomplish these goals. It is far better to learn how to deal with a run-out 5.4 before attempting a harder climb that is even more run out.


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