Ab Rollout Questions

I'm a pseudo-avid weekend warrior. I'm currently bouldering V3+, climbing fairly comfortably in the 5.10s. I'm hoping to send my first 5.12 before 2015 is up, and be comfortable in V4+. I try to climb a few times per week, but tend to get busy and occasionally can only pull once/week.

Regardless, I can consistently do some workouts at home and I was wondering about ab rollouts (with the cheaply wheel, not that spring loaded junk). I currently can do 3 sets of 10 easily from the knees, but I was wondering what more elite climbers are able to do/what I could/should do to help get to that stage. I'd like to be able to get to where I can do them standing, but I think that may be a little ways out. Currently, I feel like my shoulders are limiting advancement more than my actual core muscles. I know how to scale these towards standing but I'm unsure whether more reps or harder reps would help most. I'd also like to gauge where I'm at numbers-wise, compared to some 5.12 climbers.

Thanks!

I highly suggest taking a look at Jim Bathurst's blog post about the ab wheel. He has gone into the proper form and progression methods for a full standing ab wheel roll out.

beastskills.com/ab-wheel-ro…

Cheers!

I have already actually haha. Just wanting to see where I should be aiming in regards to climbing. I don't want to focus on it more than I need to! Beast skills is awesome, and I wish I had the time to learn all those tricks, and climb well, and still have time for everything else in life haha

Whoops, barking up the wrong tree, I see!! Yeah, Jim is incredibly strong and is a bodyweight master. I hear you on wanting to learn cool BW tricks and still focus on climbing, and life.

As for now, I'm happy with pistols and handstands serving as my bag of flashy BW tricks.

I recommend doing the Ab Roll from rings because it's much easier to gradually/progressively increase the difficulty. Also more climbers have access to rings than to ab roller contraptions. Check out this tutorial for details (scroll down to "Ab Roll From Rings" if you aren't interested in the rest).

Luke R 84 wrote:I'm a pseudo-avid weekend warrior. I'm currently bouldering V3+, climbing fairly comfortably in the 5.10s. I'm hoping to send my first 5.12 before 2015 is up, and be comfortable in V4+. I try to climb a few times per week, but tend to get busy and occasionally can only pull once/week. Regardless, I can consistently do some workouts at home and I was wondering about ab rollouts (with the cheaply wheel, not that spring loaded junk). I currently can do 3 sets of 10 easily from the knees, but I was wondering what more elite climbers are able to do/what I could/should do to help get to that stage. I'd like to be able to get to where I can do them standing, but I think that may be a little ways out. Currently, I feel like my shoulders are limiting advancement more than my actual core muscles. I know how to scale these towards standing but I'm unsure whether more reps or harder reps would help most. I'd also like to gauge where I'm at numbers-wise, compared to some 5.12 climbers. Thanks!

I don't know that I consider myself a 5.12 climber, but (spray warning) I have onsighted up to 5.11d, and redpointed up to 5.12c, and redpoint 5.12a's and 5.12b's consistently (end spray). I generally do the ab-roller (same variety as you) during my strength training phase, and will usually start out with 3 sets of 25 from the knees, doing it twice a week, and by the end of the 5 weeks of strength training be up to 3 sets of 35. I have considered getting the rings like Mark mentioned to try and progress to doing them standing.

Rings do seem nice, and my gym has them. I like the roller just for the sake of doing them at home.

Second, better question though- is this the best climbing-centric core exercise? Obviously, I think climbing more is the better answer to improve climbing, but rollouts seem really useful in general, and seem to work the right muscles (including antagonists) that you'd use in climbing, especially on negative/overhanging routes.

Luke R 84 wrote:Second, better question though- is this the best climbing-centric core exercise? Obviously, I think climbing more is the better answer to improve climbing, but rollouts seem really useful in general, and seem to work the right muscles (including antagonists) that you'd use in climbing, especially on negative/overhanging routes.

My opinion is that ab wheel roll out isn’t a very climbing centric exercise. Full disclosure: I do standing ab wheel roll outs as part of a circuit to work the antagonist muscles (pushups, squats, presses, etc) to hopefully stay away from muscle imbalances. But my ability to do them does not correlate to my ability (or inability to be more accurate) to climb hard. I can crank out a front lever with ease (by the time you get to standing ab wheel roll out you should be able to as well), but I’ve never had to do a full front lever an overhang anywhere. It helps in certain situations, for example, if your feet cut loose on an overhang, it makes it easier to bring your feet back (especially if the footholds are far away from your handhold). But in general, it’s much better if you can prevent your feet from cutting loose in the first place, and this requires body tension that is different from a front lever / ab wheel roll out. Think about it: when you hold body tension on an overhang/roof, you’re holding your body rigid between your hand and your feet while FACING UP. It’s almost opposite of what you’re doing when you’re in the extended position in the ab wheel roll out (facing down). To be more climbing-centric, you need to flip your body around so you’re facing up while using the ab wheel, which is basically anatomically impossible.

I’m not saying don’t use the ab wheel. Like I mentioned earlier, I use it myself. Just don’t use it exclusively and thinking you’re building strong core for climbing, “core” is more than just a six-pack. Do the ab wheel, but also do complementary exercises for your lower back muscles. I do back extensions and “supermans” on an exercise ball. If you use weights, deadlifts may be a good workout for multiple muscle groups. If you can get close to a front lever, pull up in a front lever, then place your feet on the wall (or very small footholds) and do “pullups” in that position may also be a great climbing-centric exercise.

Edit: Well I just read Monomaniac's response, so scratch everything I said and follow his advice. I just wish I have a barn at my house to mount the gymnastic rings, plus a mini climbing gym...

Luke R 84 wrote: I'd also like to gauge where I'm at numbers-wise, compared to some 5.12 climbers. Thanks!

Spray for the puposes of comparison
I rp 5.13+, boulder v11/12ish, and can do about 15 rollouts from my knees. I can guarantee it's not your weakest link. End Spray

Ab rollers are fine for antagonist, not particularly specific to climbing.
Things to train in order of importance:
Climb #1, Fingers #2, Posterior chain (Deadlifts, front squats, etc.) #3, Pull Muscles(pullups, rows, etc.) #4

Some people may disagree, but I think #1 and #2 are pretty well accepted at this point.

A swiss ball is useful for a few exercises for maintaining tension in a face-up position.

Lie on your back with both heels on the ball and legs straight, push through your heels so your body is straight with your butt lifted off the ground (think reverse plank) and hold. You can hold for a while or do a number of reps with a brief hold, and you can superset with a number of exercises like bridges and hamstring curls as one long posterior chain/stability circuit. You can also get up and flip over to do planks with your forearms on the swiss ball to zap your core from all sides. Progressing to doing this with one foot will make it much harder - as will keeping your hands off ground and crossed over your chest.

Movement skills often are compromised by one's personal "weak link" - in climbing as well as any other sport - which varies by the individual. One of the advantages of any kind of resistance training is the ability to target the weak link - be it an individual muscle or muscle group or portion of your body. Usually some testing can help you figure out what is weak. Using ab wheel rollouts as an example - if you can't do but just a few on your knees - you have a weakness that you can address - but if you can do say 25 or 30 of them, increasing that number may not help at all with your climbing. A well balanced strength around your joints is healthy and will make you a better climber as well. How to best develop that is always going to be argued.

If you're looking for the most appropriate movement to replicate climbing on steep/overhanging routes, I think one of the best is "toes-to-bar." Hang on a pull-up bar(or rings) and move your toes up to the bar. This can be done with a varying degree of leg straightness. The more bent the legs, the easier it is to do, and fully straight legs really works the lower abs and hip flexors.

This body weight exercise uses hip flexors, abs and lats all at the same time in a coordinated, natural movement which is very similar to what we do when we pull up or feet to get them back onto the holds on overhanging routes.