Does anyone else feel like the 11c grade for crack climbs in lcc fits the "we don't really know how hard this is, but its hard, so we'll just call it 11c" ideology? Here is a list of 5 11c cracks that have been extremely difficult for me to redpoint. Does anyone think these are legit 11c?

-spring and fall
-split fingers
-wing nut
-gargoyle
-mother of pearl

Split Fingers is definitely legit 5.11.
Gargoyle is climbed so infrequently and is flaky enough that its difficulty can change somewhat from season to season.

are you suggesting that the climbs on that list should be graded harder than 11c? I havent done them all but wing nut and mother of pearl are definitely no harder than 11c.

My point is that climbs of similar grades outside lcc, like Steel Reserve or Little Creatures, both rated 11c, were loads, ie onsightable, easier. Even the 11b's of lcc, like Stormy resurrection or Looney tunes, piece of cake comparatively. Coyne crack or the 2nd pitch of S direct, both 11d, or even trinity right 12a, are easier IMO. So yes, i personally feel all of those 11c's listed are harder than the grade. But maybe others feel differently. hence the post

Are you suggesting someone might have sand bagged something or that they may have graded it from the perspective of when it was put up.

I am not sure I am following you here, but it sounds like it could be serious. ;-)

PT

I've done them all and I'll bite...

Spring and Fall- hard to grade because its really strange and the difficulties are quickly over, but I'll say 11+/12- (I've dislocated my thumb two different times thumb-camming through the awkward crux on this one)

Split Fingers- 12- (definitely harder and scarier than Trinity Right)

Wing Nut- 11c/d... felt rather commiting

Gargoyle- Legit 11c and the best route (real crack) on this list

Mother of Pearl- Unquestionably harder than 11c...11+/12- an amazing link up of multiple features

So yeah Spencer, I think I basically agree with you.

Little Cottonwood can be all over the map...

In the 5.11 grade don't miss Pudgy Gumby's, Enter the Dragon, and Hogums Heros.

Perhaps there is beta you have yet to unlock?

I think 5.11 is just a nasty hard grade all around in LCC. To this day I probably have not tried harder on a climb than when fighting through the upper crux of tick fever on my redpoint a couple years ago.

I think if you have done the above list you are probably a damn good rock climber. Plus you have brought lots of of blood sucking ticks home in your shorts.
Sorry about how you keep dislocating your thumbs Brad. I guess your fingers are just strong and not your thumbs.

Stump the Stars. Given 11d but felt more like 11b.

You are sadly mistaken "Nooky Brown", if that's your real name, Stump the Stars is 11b if you're young and strong, but 11d if you are old and swill New Castles all day.

Late on the post, but I just want to add my two cents, I have just gotten used to everything being... around the grade in LCC, for example the infamous .9+ of LCC.

This is fun! LCC grades are always all over the place. Nothing is harder than grading your own FA. If you onsited it you probably don't know it well enough to find all the "trick" beta and LCC is notorious for trick beta. When you have to work something the tricks reveal themselves and hopefully stuff gets a lot less scary.

Often the beta is something like, "Put your foot inches left and stand up on it so you can reach the sloper jug." Not like Hell, where the beta for the same grade might be, "Pull the 1/2" crimp through to your waist so you can grab the next crimp." Getting on your feet on the steep stuff seems to be harder sometimes than you'd expect. When I can make that happen the grade feels right. When I can't I'm cursing.

We all know the biggest secret of all: "Don't expect to climb hard in LCC if its more than 60 degrees or if its sunny."

Damn wingnut be scary and shit.