Was asked to post this here

Trying not to post a click-baity title since the situation is different from the other recent Alien failure but I was asked to post this to MP.

My (new) 1/3 Black Alien snapped after a small fall. It was my second piece placed close to 90 degrees in a shallow, vertical crack.

I am not sure how willing I am to simply throw Fixe under the bus as the placement was not ideal. That said, it was sort of shocking to me that the head snapped off. If anything, this is a reminder to place gear in the direction of the fall. In my case it seemed like the best option, clearly not.

Fixe Alien

Fixe Alien

Fixe Alien

Small gear fails. 90 deg in a vertical crack would not be ideal orientation.

I guess that is why every manufacturer tells us to anticipate the direction of the fall and place the cam stem in that direction. I don't think it is the manufacturers fault. I same thing happens to old rigid stem friends in a horizontal crack.

You could't place a nut? or better pink tricam that makes certain people happy

mountainproject.com/v/alien…

mountainproject.com/v/alien…

mountainproject.com/v/malfu…

mountainproject.com/v/fixe-…

Brassmonkey wrote:Wow, thats a scary looking failure!! Little to no lobe deformation to show excessive forces were placed on the cam that should/could create a failure like that. Scary. Glad I don't own any. The strength rating is 5KN, is that right? I would change the title to something not click-baity, but more honest to what this is. "New Fixe Alien LITE Failure" isn't off base because that's what it actually is to me.

Title would be more accurate if it said "I broke my cam because of a poor placement".

1) Tiny cams are not that strong and have very small margins of error.
2) Sticking straight out is a sure way to break the cam, regardless off rated strength.

Bad Placement - 90deg

another brand.

Think of a #2 pencil. If you try to pull it apart axially it will be damn near impossible. Bend that #2 over an edge though and it breaks easily. All cam strength ratings are under ideal, in-line loading test scenarios. All bets are off when you start loading them in ways that introduce torque at the head.

3) Small cams are simply more fragile pro and should be treated as such. All these "X small cam failure" threads are nearly all pilot error. [not sure on the latest yellow Alien but...]

Asked by whom?

I'm rather impressed it didn't rip out first, given the angle it was placed at.

I think this indicates the difference between placing at 90deg in vertical cracks and 90deg in horizontal. In the latter, assuming the crack is deep enough, the load will be inline with the stem, and the flexible bit will be over the edge and forming the right angle.

It's not ideal as a placement but damn I do that shit with other cams and they don't break. Something ain't right. Fixe needs to get they're shit together or just call their shit shit. I've warped the hell out of a BD cam placed in a pocket with that orientation. Was not a small fall and the cam didn't break. Had small falls on WC zeros in what sounds like similar orientation and they never broke either. So I don't think the dudes placement is the blame.

mattm wrote: Title would be more accurate if it said "I broke my cam because of a poor placement".

This.

Curious. Did this cam actually hold your fall or did it pull? If it held your fall, then it succeed in its job. I also notice the trigger wires are still intact. That last picture is the best as it most likely really shows the angle of application.

^^^^^^^^

Yup.

another brand.

This image is from the user manual for the Totem Basic. The Basics use the same design as the CCH/Fixe Aliens

From the user guide: Do not use the Basic cam in shallow cracks, where the Basic cam body can not be properly aligned with the expected load (see figure 5). The strength is lower in this situation, and also the device could slip out.

Popcorn anyone?

I've whipped on an original blue alien placed straight out. First piece in at about 12 to 15 ft.; crack climb at Indian Cove, Joshua Tree. Probably weighed about 220 lbs. at the time. If memory serves, the placement was at my waist when I came off. It held, bent but straightened out and I still use it

Original blue alien

Original blue alien

Hey Locker, If you're a cool old guy like we are then of course..you can evaluate based on years of climbing experience.

I placed a black Metolius in a shallow limestone crack on Sunday...straight out. Did not like it at all. Do not recommend placements like that. Tricam would not have worked. Was an easy slab and the clip 10 ft below was a bolt.

To clarify...my gear is so cave the colors may have changed. It was a #5 Metolius

JulianG wrote: You could't place a nut? or better pink tricam that makes certain people happy

Pink tricam is rattley fingers. Black alien is a micro cam. He needed a nut.

Responding to a few comments.

JulianG wrote:You could't place a nut? or better pink tricam that makes certain people happy

No, it was a strenuous stem with poor visibility into the crack. A nut would have taken too long.

mattm wrote: Title would be more accurate if it said "I broke my cam because of a poor placement".

Sure

Muscrat wrote:Asked by whom?

A few people on Reddit, I figured it might generate a good discussion on placement of cams, especially small ones.

MuddyPaws wrote: How much rope did you have out and how far above the last piece were you? Also, doesn't sound like you decked, so despite breaking the head of the stem, the cam held you.

It was maybe a little below my waist when I fell. I didnt exactly deck, but landed on my feet. My belayer did an awesome job.

grega wrote:Curious. Did this cam actually hold your fall or did it pull?

It pulled, which is more or less what I expected to happen if I fell, which I wasnt intending to do. Something about mental duct-tap. The thing that was more surprising to me was the fact that it snapped. Consensus seems to be that I should have expected that.

Brassmonkey wrote:I'll say it again, show me pics of other cams that have failed this way, not x4's. Start whipping all over small gear and you'll come to learn what they should be able to hold, even in marginal placements. And bearbreeder has a weird thing against all "microcams" so I take little stock his thoughts on this subject.

I'm with Brassmonkey on this one. I think we can all agree it was a bad placement. That said, though, does anyone have any actual evidence of non-Alien small cams failing in similar placements?

wfscot wrote: I'm with Brassmonkey on this one. I think we can all agree it was a bad placement. That said, though, does anyone have any actual evidence of non-Alien small cams failing in similar placements?

What about all the Aliens that have held falls while being placed in a way that is completely wrong. So wrong that all manufacturers advise against it.

While I get the poor placement, a fall with this piece just below the waist seems surprising small to have this effect.

I would really question if there wasnt some sort of a defect. The wire doesnt appear to be fully threaded/pushed into the void, and the metal stem snapped exactly where the rounded part meets metal tube part and where the wire ended. It looks kinda suspect to me and if it was such a common issue (ie mode of failuer)then im not sure why I've never seen one of these failures on here, especially by ALL the other cam manufactures.

That being said that metal trigger is pretty well mangled so there must have been some significant force but lack of documented cases of this critical failure in other brands and even in other Alien units puts me on the this is questionable and prob should be looked at by Fixe and I'm glad I dont have any Aliens.

Morgan Patterson wrote:and the metal stem snapped exactly where the rounded part meets metal tube part and where the wire ended.

That is where it suppose to break, at the weakest link. Paper breaks on the perforate line for the same reason or a wish bone. I don't know the metal they used but they use different metal could reinforce it(make it bigger)

Mike Brady wrote: What about all the Aliens that have held falls while being placed in a way that is completely wrong. So wrong that all manufacturers advise against it.

So we're supposed to be stoked that a bunch of them didn't break?

This was covered on the other broken Alien thread, but cams from the other manufacturers, while mangled, don't seem to suffer this kind of catastrophic failure. There is a massive difference between kinked cables or deformed lobes and full on separation. I think it's missing the point entirely to simply say "oh well, bad placement" and move on.