ATC or Grigri? Official MP survey

I am amazed that no one has thus far pointed out that this is a pointless survey incapable of illuminating anything because IT'S THE BELAYER, NOT THE DEVICE.

Full disclosure: I almost never sport climb; it is a sub-genre of climbing (not climbing) that I just don't find very interesting. Unlike some above, I DON'T want my belayer using a gri-gri for the things I do (ice, trad, alpine) because

1) a Gri-gri is heavier
2) a Gri-gri is more expensive
3) a Gri-gri is more complex
4) a Gri-gri doesn't do double ropes
5) a Gri-gri doesn't do icy ropes

Why does that matter? Because in my estimation if you actually bought the damn thing then you're a little dense and I don't want dense people belaying me. Dense people can figure out to screw up anything, there is no such thing as a fool proof device for that reason. If you can't figure out how to use a simple device like an ATC correctly, then I don't want you belaying me. In 30+ years I've never dropped nor been dropped.

To help clarify, Corey is working on a story for our blog. We definitely welcome all input and advice (and encourage you to take the quick survey). It's common for a publication to poll its community, and that's what we're doing here, as a starting point to provide color and substance to the article.

Jim Corbett wrote: Full disclosure: I almost never sport climb; it is a sub-genre of climbing (not climbing) that I just don't find very interesting.

Hobo Greg wrote:I belay with both, at the same time. Just like double bagging it, its safer that way.

Corey Buhay wrote:Ted, that's what I'm trying to find out. If you have access to more scientifically collected data, please PM me; I'd love to see it! However, I've been unable to find any conclusive evidence for the safety of one device over the other (outside the gym) as of the posting of this survey. Shoo, I agree that survey respondents will be self-selecting in that they're more likely to respond if they've been dropped, but I have no reason to believe Mountain Project users would be predisposed to use a Grigri over an ATC or vice versa. Therefore, a comparison of the two should still be valid if corrections for a small sample size are applied. And though any evidence will still anecdotal, some numbers would shed more light than current forum discussions do. This is also meant to be used in conjunction with other sources, not as standalone evidence. If you have any more concerns, please feel free to PM me; I appreciate your feedback. Medic741 - That's an excellent point. Please mention that in the comment/clarification section of the survey, if you haven't already. I'll see if I can add another question.

Jim Corbett wrote:I am amazed that no one has thus far pointed out that this is a pointless survey incapable of illuminating anything because IT'S THE BELAYER, NOT THE DEVICE. Full disclosure: I almost never sport climb; it is a sub-genre of climbing (not climbing) that I just don't find very interesting. Unlike some above, I DON'T want my belayer using a gri-gri for the things I do (ice, trad, alpine) because 1) a Gri-gri is heavier 2) a Gri-gri is more expensive 3) a Gri-gri is more complex 4) a Gri-gri doesn't do double ropes 5) a Gri-gri doesn't do icy ropes Why does that matter? Because in my estimation if you actually bought the damn thing then you're a little dense and I don't want dense people belaying me. Dense people can figure out to screw up anything, there is no such thing as a fool proof device for that reason. If you can't figure out how to use a simple device like an ATC correctly, then I don't want you belaying me. In 30+ years I've never dropped nor been dropped.

I thought it was not appropriate to belay trad with a gri gri. Also I would not give anyone an oppertunity to drop me a second time, thats just plain dumb, fire that belayer, I'd rather rope solo, my micro ascender doesn't oogle cute girls take pictures, play with their iPhone ,smoke cigarettes talk to other people at the Crag ,etcetera Etc always on the job

It's neither the fault of the device nor the belayer, the fault falls on the judgement of the leader. Lot of dropee's in the survey results, not so many droppers....huh.

Tradster wrote: Been climbing 42 years and don't use a GriGri and never dropped anyone. Numbers 1-5 are all valid. I've seen some one drop a person at the gym using a GriGri. They are not fool or idiot proof.

Tim Lutz wrote: is that a Gri TC, or are just happy to see me?!

I was dropped to the ground with a cinch. I believe what happened was my belayer thought I was clipping when I was in fact falling and fed me slack,and then "froze up" after I continued to "ask for slack"(continued to fall, that is). The brain freeze occurred with her hand death gripping the device so that it did not lock up and let rope slide through, within a second or 2 I decked. Hope that makes sense. On another note, this thread and many others are plain embarrassing. It won't be long until MP threads read like the comments on a youtube video. Smarten up people.

eric schweitzer wrote:I was dropped to the ground by a human.