Rapelling Rescue - How to save my partner?

Cut The Rope!!!!

Gunkiemike wrote: Unfortunately, one can not ascend by alternately weighting two ropes. Each stretches as it's loaded, and the result is simply a good imitation of one of those Versa-Climber machines. Rather funny to watch, but I wasn't the guy hanging in space at the time.

Every time you tie a knot above a knot, you get a little higher. Going in direct to the next higher knot would be like an aid climb. Slow and excruciating lol!

Robert Hildebrand wrote:In general, these courses are expensive and it is unclear which courses to take.

I just want to chime in here... the Bostom AMC does an outdoor rock course every year that runs for 4 weekends and costs about $200. I got a lot more out of it than I expected to (they do teach you how to ascend via prusik).

The people teaching the course are not AMGA certified or anything, but it's very helpful for getting hands-on experience, and becoming familiar with how to climb in a safe way. I've also taken a self-rescue course via the AMC. The course was taught by an AMGA certified guide. It cost about $100 per person.

I think these prices are very reasonable. Of course, not everyone is living in an area where they have access to such a course. You may want to look around, though. You can sometimes find that if you go as a group, you can get discounts for courses with guides.

One more thing: it's easy to forget techniques that are taught during courses. You've got to practice this stuff once in a while to remember how they're done; just taking a course is not enough.

No-frills prusiking instruction: ukclimbing.com/articles/pag…

Beta on ideal spacing for knots (illustrated in the context of big-wall ascending with Jumars but still relevant). youtube.com/watch?v=-xeHZo-…

Using a guide plate as an ascender and transitioning from rappelling mode to ascending mode. For folks who use such plates, this is the most effective technique. blog.alpineinstitute.com/20…

Old lady H wrote:I've been thinking about ways to ascend, with minimal gear. Would this work? Assuming an ATC for rappel, and just one prussik with carabiner (rappel back up): 1. Tie a loop in the ropes with an anything on a bite close to the ATC (for backup). 2. Tie a loop a little farther down (for a foot loop). 3. Transfer the prussik above the ATC, and clip to it. 4. Stand up in the foot loop, shoving the prussik up. 5. Weight the prussik, taking weight off the ATC. 6. Slide the ATC up, tie another loop, and repeat. You'd always have two attachments to the rope, be able to weight and unweighted, and always have a backup if you let go of everything. I think it would be reversible, too? I didn't read all the other links yet, I wanted to just think it out, with what little I know, since that's all I would have in real life. H. Edit: nor read rgold above! :-) Ditto on prussiking being pretty simple to learn. If I can do it..... Lol!

I think the OP said that his partner not only did not have, but had never used, an autoblock or prussik back-up. Assuming you had one, as well as a few feet of rope left below you, sounds like this would work fine. Even better if you are using an ATC guide or similar and can convert it to ascension mode (which also requires an extra locker).

I suggest you consider making it a standard practice to always carry a few emergency items, so that you will always have the basic tools you might need "in real life".

Old lady H wrote:I've been thinking about ways to ascend, with minimal gear. Would this work? Assuming an ATC for rappel, and just one prussik with carabiner (rappel back up): 1. Tie a loop in the ropes with an anything on a bite close to the ATC (for backup). 2. Tie a loop a little farther down (for a foot loop). 3. Transfer the prussik above the ATC, and clip to it. 4. Stand up in the foot loop, shoving the prussik up. 5. Weight the prussik, taking weight off the ATC. 6. Slide the ATC up, tie another loop, and repeat. You'd always have two attachments to the rope, be able to weight and unweighted, and always have a backup if you let go of everything. I think it would be reversible, too? I didn't read all the other links yet, I wanted to just think it out, with what little I know, since that's all I would have in real life. H. Edit: nor read rgold above! :-) Ditto on prussiking being pretty simple to learn. If I can do it..... Lol!

I was in a class once when the teacher challenged us to use the minimal amount of gear to ascend the rope safely... The winner (not me) used one carabiner plus the rope itself. It's a fun thing to try and duplicate if you don't know how it's done.

I'll try to remember to post pictures of how it's done when I'm not at work.

JK- wrote: I was in a class once when the teacher challenged us to use the minimal amount of gear to ascend the rope safely... The winner (not me) used one carabiner plus the rope itself. It's a fun thing to try and duplicate if you don't know how it's done. I'll try to remember to post pictures of how it's done when I'm not at work.

John, the minimal was when we were allowed to climb ropes in elementary school. Wrap a fat, jute rope around your legs few times, with the last wrap coming over the top of your instep, and trailing down the inside of your foot. Stand on it with your other foot, and you could park there all day. Loosen feet a bit, hoist/shinny up (lots easier with knots in the rope), and voila! you are at the ceiling in the gym.

Don't think they've let kids do that for a long, long time. I loved it, but I was probably only hauling 40? 50? pounds then!

All they had for the safety part was a really thin pad, and a teacher, who was basically just there to pluck off the kids who got scared six feet off the ground.

Em Cos wrote: Even better if you are using an ATC guide or similar and can convert it to ascension mode (which also requires an extra locker).

Very cool. I had never heard of anyone using the ATC guide for ascending. That method is much better than using a regular tube and pulling it through while using a prussik above for a foot step.

youtu.be/wlWN2ebijT8

Great video

The video is ok as far as it goes, but if you have a plate with a guide belay mode, then the link I posted shows a significantly better way to employ the belay plate.

The issue with the method in the video is that the ATC in ordinary rappelling mode doesn't lock; the climber is belaying themselves and must not release their grip---the brake hand has to stay on the device. You can see an issue with this when the friction knot tightens and the climber has to work it loose with just one hand while continually gripping with the brake hand. If you want to have both hands free you have to tie off the plate or use leg wraps.

To modify the process in the video so as to be able to use the locking feature of the guide plate, do everything as described up to attaching the foot loop. Then stand up in it, creating enough slack to clip the guide-belay hole on the belay plate to the harness belay loop. Now when the Munter mule is undone, the belay plate will lock whenever rope is drawn in.

Good point. The atc guide mode for ascending sounds awesome. I will have to go and try this out.
Here is a demonstration I found online.

Ascending in guide mode

Both videos make what I think is a redunancy error, which is to say failing to avail oneself of available redundancy. There should be some kind of connection running from the belay loop to the upper knot, which is the one with the foot loop. The reason is that the way the set-ups are shown in the videos, if for some reason the plate releases, the climber will fall onto the footloop, and as they'll be taken unawares, they could turn upside down and fall out of the footloop, in which case they are falling down the rope with an unlocked atc. The extra connection means the upper knot can serve as a backup to the plate.

This is most easily and quickly managed if the rappeller has an installed tether with enough slack to accommodate the motion of the upper knot.

rgold wrote:There should be some kind of connection running from the belay loop to the upper knot, which is the one with the foot loop.

Exactly. This is what I was talking about twice: in the vid and in side notes below the vid.

The same time the situation by itself and the word redundanxy are incompartible :)

The purpose of the vid is to show the importance of learning the basics of rope work. The bare basics is enough to improvise at least something. More important: basic knowledge and skills are enough to avoid such a situation (e.g. due to understanding "shit happens thus I need a redundacy and a bailing out strategy on this rappel").

JIC, "bailing out strategy on this rappel" = have a jug, or a rope clamp and slings'n'lockers, or an extra long prussik with you. And - the most important - use any occasion (e.g. rainy day or cragging in a group of three) to practice. First, it is fun to practice rope technique, second, it will save you a day.

rgold wrote:Both videos make what I think is a redunancy error, which is to say failing to avail oneself of available redundancy. There should be some kind of connection running from the belay loop to the upper knot, which is the one with the foot loop. The reason is that the way the set-ups are shown in the videos, if for some reason the plate releases, the climber will fall onto the footloop, and as they'll be taken unawares, they could turn upside down and fall out of the footloop, in which case they are falling down the rope with an unlocked atc. The extra connection means the upper knot can serve as a backup to the plate. This is most easily and quickly managed if the rappeller has an installed tether with enough slack to accommodate the motion of the upper knot.

Excellent point. Also, once there is a backup, and the device can be safely unweighted, if you happen to have a Reverso, ATC guide or some other tube style device that can be used in guide mode, it can be configured that way off the harness to capture progress. I imagine locking off a tube style device not in guide mode to ascend anything more than a few feet would be exhausting, though it certainly can be done.

If you are able to communicate the plan and the other climber at least knows how to ascend a rope and you had a sling or something to create a friction hitch you could have attached it to the rope with a biner and slide it down to the other climber to ascend the rope.

Pavel Burov wrote: Exactly. This is what I was talking about twice: in the vid and in side notes below the vid.

The desirable additional connection between the climber's belay loop and the top friction knot is not illustrated in the vid, nor was I able to find any "side notes" mentioning it.

don'tchuffonme wrote: I imagine locking off a tube style device not in guide mode to ascend anything more than a few feet would be exhausting, though it certainly can be done.

I agree. If you have a guide plate, converting to guide mode is definitely the way to go.

Max Rieg wrote:If...you had a sling or something to create a friction hitch you could have attached it to the rope with a biner and slide it down to the other climber to ascend the rope.

On an overhanging rappel, the rope is going to be pinched against a lip somewhere, and nothing is going to slide past that point.

rgold wrote: On an overhanging rappel, the rope is going to be pinched against a lip somewhere, and nothing is going to slide past that point.

I think the only thing to do here then would be to rappel down close enough to that lip point and to then slide a sling on a biner down over the lip to your second. Really the only way to do it.

The best way to figure all this out is to either climb with experienced climbers enough that they can teach / demonstrate the skills you need to learn or to take some classes. So far I have learned my climbing skills from two good climbers I know who have taken me outside and a self rescue class at the Craggin Classic earlier this month. I haven't been climbing long, but who knows when self rescue / rope ascension / ect would have come up when out climbing with my friends. Class wasn't too expensive and now with my knowledge and with what I can teach my wife from that class, I feel much much more confident in going out and climbing routes that I haven't been shown by someone who has climbed them already.

Max Rieg wrote: The best way to figure all this out is to either climb with experienced climbers enough that they can teach / demonstrate the skills you need to learn or to take some classes. So far I have learned my climbing skills from two good climbers I know who have taken me outside and a self rescue class at the Craggin Classic earlier this month. I haven't been climbing long, but who knows when self rescue / rope ascension / ect would have come up when out climbing with my friends. Class wasn't too expensive and now with my knowledge and with what I can teach my wife from that class, I feel much much more confident in going out and climbing routes that I haven't been shown by someone who has climbed them already.

I agree that learning in person is better for most people. However, for those without skilled friends and who are unable to justify the expense of the class, a lot can be learned by taking a self-rescue book and some gear out to a suitable tree and going at it until figuring it out. There are some good vids on youtube, but also crappy / misleading / dangerous ones.