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Rapelling Rescue - How to save my partner?

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Old lady H wrote:How do you know you are hopelessly hooked on climbing? When you enjoy "what if" threads like these, and actually want to go try stuff out!
Generally I find threads of this type kind of tedious. Unfortunately, many posts like that are very poorly thought out and miss key elements or are ridiculous enough to be an obvious fabrication, as is the OP in this thread.
Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5
Russ Keane wrote:"Folks familiar with self-rescue techniques can easily figure it all out.' Exactly. But guess what- Not everyone who climbs knows self-rescue. Can I ask a question? When you did your first multi-pitch, were you an expert already? The climbing community needs to be less judgmental towards those who are breaking into the sport and might make a mistake here and there. It happens. Pretty funny to say "don't go out unless you know everything that might happen and know how to get out of it" -- How exactly does one do this? You would never rope up once because guess what, you can't know it all.
There is a difference between knowing everything, and being competent with the basics. There is a difference between not going out at all and avoiding situations you are not prepared for, like multi-pitch overhanging rappels you are not familiar with.

No one is saying they shouldn't have climbed at all until they know "everything", we are saying it's irresponsible, perhaps fatally so, to start down a rappel of this type without the very basic gear and skills that the situation calls for.

By the way, just a thought - I'm not sure it's correct to suggest the OP was wrong not to rappel first. The experienced leader in a party should go first, but these two may have been partners of equivalent inexperience and unpreparedness. If neither member of your party is competent and experienced, you shouldn't be on that rappel at all.

I understand that responding to a question of how to fix this situation with "you never should've gotten into it in the first place" can sound dismissive. But the thing is, some situations are so dire if you don't know what you're doing, and so simple to prevent, that the only right answer really is "don't do that again."
keithconn · · LI, NY · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 35

Watch Vertical Limit and "cut the rope"!

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374
Marc801 wrote: Generally I find threads of this type kind of tedious. Unfortunately, many posts like that are very poorly thought out and miss key elements or are ridiculous enough to be an obvious fabrication, as is the OP in this thread.
Actually? My theory is that the op had something happen/did something dumb, and made a semi fabricated story fishing for an answer they didn't want to ask for more directly, but which is dumber than just asking. There have been other ambiguous posts where they eventually come clean, and then get some help, if they aren't an ass about it.

You, and many others on here, are very gracious, and generous with advice, when someone just flat out says, "here's what happened, I know I blew it, if it had gone south, what could I have done", something like that.

Which means, even though they aren't talking to you, your generous self might be helping them out anyway, even if annoyingly tangentially.
keithconn · · LI, NY · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 35

^^^

You got it! We should however feel comfortable enough that when you screw up to post it hear and get some good positive feedback about how to avoid it in the future!

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374
keithconn wrote:^^^ You got it! We should however feel comfortable enough that when you screw up to post it hear and get some good positive feedback about how to avoid it in the future!
Well, yeah. If they choose to come on and have a conversation, they'll get some pot shots, sure, people out there do that, but there's always really good feed back and tons of info also.
Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740

This was fun to think about. The best I could come up with was for the climber, above, to prusik into the rope on either side of the anchor...the rappeler to go in direct on the strand that's supported by the prusik, and switch to single-strand rappel on the loose strand, while the climber above secures the loose strand with a belay of some sort. At this point, the rope at the anchor can't slide out in either direction. The rappeler can now alternate between the strands, tying knots on one strand, locking off with their belay device on the other, while using the thigh wrap (which I'm a fan of).

Medic741 · · Des Moines, IA (WTF) · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 265

Paul. That's actually brilliant.

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5

Once they've got the other strand on belay, they should be able to lower the climber to the ground - assuming they were correct that they started out no more than two single rope raps to the ground. Of course, that may be an overly optimistic assumption.

Robert Hildebrand · · Crompond, NY · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 95

Thank you everyone for your responses. I really got a kick out of how many people thought this was a fictitious scenario, such as

rgold wrote:... and on the remote chance that it is real,...
In fact, this really happened. And the story gets more unbelievable….

First, I admit this was just not our day. Things just did not work out. We have taken steps to prepare ourselves better for future events. This question was intended to see how I could have rectified the situation after things went bad - and there were some very good answers that have got me thinking and alluded to what it possible and what is not.

Second, as I found out later, just one week prior, another group had to be rescued via helicopter from the rappel. In the guide book (a very recent edition), the rappel appeared to be standard. This apparently was not the case. Friends of the authors of the guide told me they would pass along this information.

Third, I should comment that since my partner was over an edge, I could not communicate with her well and I could not even see her.

To continue the story…
We were in Kalymnos, Greece doing a multi-pitch climb that goes over the Grand Grotta. The climb was 2 or 3 pitches and was only rated 6b for a few moves and then 5b in most spots (French grades). So the climb was not difficult.
After we got stuck, my partner called down to some other climbers to get help. Fortunately, it was not yet too late in the day and there were still climbers at the crag.
Making things complicated, the climb we were rappelling over was probably a 7c - very difficult route.
To our amazement, a very happy fellow in a brown stetson hat and an slight Irish accent came floating up the route and rescued my partner by throwing her a rope and pilling her into the rap station.

From there, you would expect the story is over…. well… it wasn’t…

Seeming that everything was remedied, our rescuer went back to his climbing on other routes. My partner tied into the rap station and tied the rope into the rap station so that I could rappel down to her. I did so, and then we proceeded to pull the rope for the next rappel…. except that … well…. the rope was stuck.

Rough day. To this day, I am baffled that they rope got stuck. The chains it was threaded through must have twisted or something. Unfortunately, no amount of pulling on either end would help the rope come loose.

So, we were stuck again. At least this time were at a chained anchor. We called down for help once again.

The same brilliant fellow returned to our rescue, dashing up the 7c route to our aid. We then descended on his rope to get us off the rock and he went on ahead to retrieve our stuck rope. He soared up the second pitch, which was harder, probably 8a and retrieved our rope.

On the ground, we dashed to our water bottles to hydrate after baking in the sun for hours on end.
Then we went to thank our savior and praise him for our rescue.

He left, and some other climbers mentioned to us, "Isn’t that the climber Sean…."

We had no idea who Sean was, but it turns out that our hero was none other than the amazing Sean Villanueva O’Driscoll,

We are very grateful for Sean’s multiple rescues of us. I doubt that there were even other climbers on the island at the time that could have done what he did.

Well, that was our story. Either you’re now amazed that this happened or, it seems for a good portion of you, are even more in favor of thinking that this is made up. But this actually happened.

Some responses:

Russ Keane wrote: Sounds crappy and we would love to hear how things turned out.
Thanks Russ for your kind words. It was crappy. Makes for a good story though.

Em Cos wrote: By the way, just a thought - I'm not sure it's correct to suggest the OP was wrong not to rappel first. The experienced leader in a party should go first, but these two may have been partners of equivalent inexperience and unpreparedness.
Indeed, my partner had more experience in climbing and had done many long multi-pitch climbs in the past. None ever had a rappel into space like this as they were in better maintained areas. She had also not climbed as much in the past few years and I am unclear on whether she had ever used a rappel block before.

Old lady H wrote: Doesn't sound like a rap route at all.
I would agree. Unfortunately, the climbing guide lead us to believe otherwise. I’m also pretty sure this was the only available rap route from the multi-pitch.

I believe that the only way to properly rap this route would have been for my partner to place some quick draws on the way down to clip the rope into to keep closer to the wall and work her way to the next rap station. But I have never heard of anyone doing this before.

rgold wrote: In particular, I certainly knew how to prussik up a rope, had practiced it, and was equipped to do so, which means that even as a rank beginner I could never have gotten into the (fictional) mess described by the OP.
I understand that we need to be more prepared - this is obvious. We have taken step to do so. As some others were mentioning, many new climbers these days are venturing into the outdoors without having taken a self rescue course. In fact, I am not aware of any of my climbing friends that have taken a course. In general, these courses are expensive and it is unclear which courses to take.

In my preparation for multi-pitch climbing, I attended a climbing training camp called Red Rock Rendevouz, where I went on my first multi-pitch climbing experience with guide. This seemed logical in how to learn to do multi-pitch and unfortunately, no where in this trip did anyone mention anything about the importance of knowing how to ascend a rope.
I had also done several other multi-pitch climbs since then with various skilled partners that also never mentioned this.

Many climbers are starting in gyms these days, climbing sport indoors, and then transitioning to sport outdoors. Nowhere in any gym I have been to have I seen people practicing ascending ropes or has there been tutorials or courses offered on the topic. This seems common sense, and yet, is not common practice.

Unfortunately, much of climbing knowledge seems to be passed on through friends training other friends. Without the right friends, it can be very expensive to learn the proper skills. I am the only one of my friends that I know that has purchased a book on climbing techniques by the AMGA. I have not read this book cover to cover - somehow I never noticed if this book even mentioned ascending. I left the book in my office at work and will have to check this on Monday.

Recently, I have found that youtube videos are the most helpful - of the AMGA courses, climbing magazine, and other reputable sources, along with many non-reputable sources that seem to have good advice.

Thank you all again for your comments. I am very pleased with this discussion and have learned a lot.

My thoughts on the answer to my question:

1. Using techniques described, it seems that the only play here would be to descend on prussiks, passing the corner.
2. A new option that no one considered, was that after descending part way, I could try to swing my partner to the rap station. I honestly don’t know if this was feasible. At the very least, I could have connected to the wall somehow and gotten her closer to the wall so she was not hanging in the air. Maybe then I could have worked to the rap station myself and bring us there together.
3. If Part 2 did not work, then I would either:
3a: Provide my partner gear to ascend on
3b: Try this fancy trick of transferring her onto one stand than loweing her as I ascend. Unfortunately, with this trick, we would have run into problems because the rope was stuck and would not have budged.
After getting us to the rap station, unfortunately, I would then have to ascend the rope to get it unstuck, and then come back down.

I appreciate some of the other comments and ideas. For instance Paul’s recent idea. Unfortunately, there was a major communication barrier between me and my partner, so orchestrating such a plan would be difficult.
Andy P. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 190

Very creative, Paul, cool. I think, though that, we are supposed to assume there is no communication possible and the skill level of the rappeler is essentially zero?

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374

Well, how about prussiking over, and clipping in a draw asap, down some, clip another, maybe inching her closer?

How was anyone supposed to rap? Keep a tag line attached to the anchor before the second comes up? So you can tram back in?

Thanks for coming back on!

Robert Hildebrand · · Crompond, NY · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 95

I'm not sure how anyone was supposed to rap. As I mentioned, maybe by clipping into the bolts on the way down to keep on close to the wall. And I suppose constantly bouncing off the wall to maintain a swing.

When I rappelled down, even with the ropes tied to the next rap anchor, my partner had to pull me into the rap station.

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 635
Robert Hildebrand wrote:I'm not sure how anyone was supposed to rap. As I mentioned, maybe by clipping into the bolts on the way down to keep on close to the wall. And I suppose constantly bouncing off the wall to maintain a swing.
That is precisely what to do in this situation. The first person to rappel clips the rope into bolts on the way down. When he gets to the anchors, he holds onto the end of the rope, so that it is possible to pull the second person in after he has unclipped all of them.
johnnyrig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 105

No "fancy tricks".
Buy a self-rescue book and practice in your back yard, or off the rafters in your garage.
Try out the crap you see on youtube at home, until you know what works and what's crap.
Practice, along with your partner, until you know what you're both capable of doing. Practice until you're not guessing.

Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740
Andy P. wrote:Very creative, Paul, cool. I think, though that, we are supposed to assume there is no communication possible and the skill level of the rappeler is essentially zero?
HA yea! Otherwise, let's hope there's a happy fellow, wearing a stetson hat, with a slight Irish accent, that comes spidermanning up the 25 degree overhanging 7c to pull you out of it.
Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Paul Hutton wrote:The rappeler can now alternate between the strands, tying knots on one strand, locking off with their belay device on the other, while using the thigh wrap (which I'm a fan of).
Unfortunately, one can not ascend by alternately weighting two ropes. Each stretches as it's loaded, and the result is simply a good imitation of one of those Versa-Climber machines. Rather funny to watch, but I wasn't the guy hanging in space at the time.
rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Well there you have it---truth can be stranger than fiction.

Take-aways:

1. It is beyond clear you shouldn't be on a multipitch climb, especially one with rappels, if you don't how to ascend a rope with prusiks. Don't confuse prusiking with the daunting litany of self-rescue techniques, which probably only a few experienced climbers fully master. Prusiking is a basic skill. You don't need instruction, you can learn all you need from books and the internet. Learn it in a tree or at the crag with a top belay so you know what the gotcha's are and a little bit about efficiency.

I strongly recommend buying a chalk bag with a zipper pocket and keeping a pair of 6mm prusik loops permanently (along with a small knife) in the pocket, so that you are always equipped and will never find yourself without the basic necessities. To this I would add that each party member should always have with them at the very least a thin double-length runner with a lightweight locking carabiner. It is good for all kinds of things and will serve as a foot loop if prusiking has to happen.

2. Rappel ropes do get stuck sometimes. This used to be more common when climbers were building their own anchors, which couldn't always be located in the absolute best position for pulling the rope, but as your experience shows it can happen even with bolted stations. One possibility is that the rope is kinky enough when unweighted to cause a kink to twist the chains. Or sometimes just one strand pinned under the other is enough to make pulling impossible. Another possibility, when two ropes and a knot are involved, is that the knot jams in the rings; for this reason the knot should always be kept away from the rings and if possible pulled over the lip by the last rappeller.

It used to be a climbing mantra for the first rappeller down to check whether the ropes were going to pull. This concept has faded, almost into oblivion, for two reasons. One is that so many rap stations are bolted and so are presumed to have been set up so that pulling will not be hard. The other is that it is becoming more and more common, and is almost universal when the party has beginners, to install everyone on the rap lines before the first person descends. When this is done, testing whether the ropes will pull is no longer possible. Your experience suggests that there is a price to be paid for these practices, and if beginning rappellers are not an issue, that the party would be well-advised to not install their rap devices until the pull-down has been tested (and the ropes rearranged if the results are not good).

So, in a more ideal world, what should have happened in your situation? The first person raps over the lip and immediately notices that the ropes hang far out from the wall. It is almost impossible to swing in once you've built any real separation. If, as it sounds from your account, there is a bolted route ascending the rap line, then if the bolts are not too far apart, the rappeller can clip the rappel rope to the bolts to keep themselves close to the wall. In order to do this, they might have to ascend back to the stance to get all the draws, and even if they are carrying the draws they might have to ascend a little bit to make the first clip.

If there are no bolts or their spacing places the rappeller to far away to clip them, then the rappeller has to ascend back to the stance and the party has to find another way off, presumably by traversing to another anchor. In an emergency in the situation described, they could do a single rope rappel to the ground, but if there are two ropes with a knot they need to know how to pass a knot on rappel (better make that another basic skill---I recommend the Munter Pop which doesn't involve any messing around with prusiks or standing in slings). The rope would have to be abandoned; hopefully the party or some other party could return to retrieve it.

To return to the original question, the only truly sensible option for rescuing a partner unprepared to be on a multipitch climb would have been to prusik down to her, show her how to prusik and set up the system for her, and then both of you prusik back up.

It is true that there can be daunting problems prusiking up or down a loaded line when passing areas in which the rope is pressed against the rock. If these areas are relatively short, the prusiks can be untied and moved past the obstruction. But this leaves you attached by only one prusik, so adding at least one more prussik to the system is essential. The second person up, who doesn't have a weight hanging below them, can tie backup knots in the rap lines and so won't need extra prusiks.

If there is a slab above the lip so that the rope is continually flattened against the rock for a long stretch, it is going be very arduous and perhaps impossible to move the knots along. In this case the knots might have to be untied for each move so that you just have a sling under the rope, which hopefully can be "sawed" upwards and then retied as a prusik---it is going to be a long day. The second person could use a Munter Mule as a backup knot so that they could continually adjust it as they moved up. Once you get your feet on the slap you can (with effort if someone is hanging on the rope below) lever the rope away from the slab enough to move the prusiks.

The worst idea, if you have the knowledge to do it, is to try to haul the hanging rappeller back up, because in general improvised hauling is only practical for raising someone a few feet and, depending on rock friction, you might not be able to even budge a hanging climber. Add to that the fact that getting the haul going when the climber is hanging on rap lines is harder than the usual situation in which a belayer has slack to work with. Almost certainly a long cordelette will be required to get things going, and then after some slack has been generated, the hauling could be transferred to the rap lines. This involves some fancy ropework and is fraught with dangers---I haven't seen it covered in the Self-Rescue texts. In a word, fuhgetaboudit.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Robert Hildebrand wrote:2. A new option that no one considered, was that after descending part way, I could try to swing my partner to the rap station. I honestly don’t know if this was feasible. At the very least, I could have connected to the wall somehow and gotten her closer to the wall so she was not hanging in the air.
Nope. Impossible (or at least the probability is less than 0.01).
Try it in a tree or your garage with a 100lb pack free hanging below you.
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374

I've been thinking about ways to ascend, with minimal gear. Would this work?

Assuming an ATC for rappel, and just one prussik with carabiner (rappel back up):

1. Tie a loop in the ropes with an anything on a bite close to the ATC (for backup).

2. Tie a loop a little farther down (for a foot loop).

3. Transfer the prussik above the ATC, and clip to it.

4. Stand up in the foot loop, shoving the prussik up.

5. Weight the prussik, taking weight off the ATC.

6. Slide the ATC up, tie another loop, and repeat.

You'd always have two attachments to the rope, be able to weight and unweighted, and always have a backup if you let go of everything. I think it would be reversible, too?

I didn't read all the other links yet, I wanted to just think it out, with what little I know, since that's all I would have in real life.

H.

Edit: nor read rgold above! :-)

Ditto on prussiking being pretty simple to learn. If I can do it..... Lol!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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