The comparable risks of being fat and climbing

Is this thread an attempt to up the ante on the ridiculous flash foxy threads? As if misogyny and perpetuating rape culture weren't enough, now we have to add fat shaming? Doesn't somebody have a stupid overbuilt TR anchor they want to show?

Ted Pinson wrote:Is this thread an attempt to up the ante on the ridiculous flash foxy threads? As if misogyny and perpetuating rape culture weren't enough, now we have to add fat shaming? Doesn't somebody have a stupid overbuilt TR anchor they want to show?

You are microaggressing.

Rick Blair wrote: Dude, have you ever looked at the price of a head of Romaine Lettuce or Broccoli? What language are you even speaking?

I'm explaining to you what Helen's referring to not arguing with you. There's no fucking way I would try and discuss this with you considering the shitty attitude in your posts. Carry on. Here's some ammo below:

nytimes.com/2015/05/09/upsh…

reuters.com/article/us-acce…

Rick Blair wrote:What kind of bubble do you people live in? Redlining prevents someone from eating salad? 2+ jobs? Check out the housing projects in my neigborhood and tell me how many are working 2+ jobs. I drive a beat up 2002 subaru Outback, want me to post up a picture of my local housing project and see if you can find a car as crappy as mine in the picture? Poor Asian immigrant neighborhoods have grocery stores full of veggies. You people need to go back to the drawing board.

I don't think anyone is living in a bubble, but some people do realize that just because his/her personal experience and knowledge doesn't affirm someone else's claim it isn't automatically bullshit. There's actually a lot of evidence to support the assertation that people with a lower socioeconomic status have a harder time eating healthy food for a variety of reasons including education, time, and most importantly easy access to a conventional grocery store. People in poorer neighborhoods will more often have to resort to getting food from a convenience store. This topic has even appeared often in the mainstream media so I bet you could easily look into this yourself.

As for the housing project-have you actually checked it out or just driven by. Do you have the data for the occupation status of all the inhabitants? Are the people you see milling around actually residents there or are they friends/relatives mooching off of people who qualify to live there? Are those cars you see actually registered to official residents of the housing project?

I used to shop at an Asian grocery store in Chinatown. It had awesome produce. At the same time I would be curious how many stores there were like it and what the distribution of them was. Many of the clientele packed into the car of a friend a drove from a good distance away.

Eating alot and getting fat is more related to free soloing. Eating alot and exercising so you don't get fat is more like climbing in a gym on top rope where there is very little risk.

I am sure just like climbing there are a ton of different levels of risk in-between like the different styles and risk in rock climbing.

I would say though that free soloing is less risky overall than eating a ton of food and getting fat. Being fat extremely limits what you can do in life. Free soloing only has the risk of death, but we are all going to die one day... the only question is how you get there.

ViperScale wrote:Eating alot and getting fat is more related to free soloing. Eating alot and exercising so you don't get fat is more like climbing in a gym on top rope where there is very little risk. I am sure just like climbing there are a ton of different levels of risk in-between like the different styles and risk in rock climbing. I would say though that free soloing is less risky overall than eating a ton of food and getting fat. Being fat extremely limits what you can do in life. Free soloing only has the risk of death, but we are all going to die one day... the only question is how you get there.

I would say the main difference in risk between climbing and unhealthy eating habits is the time you are exposed to risk. In climbing you are only at risk while you are participating. If you decide to quit free soloing, doing runout trad climbs, or climbing altogether you have no residual risk. On the other hand you can't say I'm going to be fat one day and skinny the next and those decades of poor choices can still pose a risk long after you have decided to make serious changes.

Rick Blair wrote:What kind of bubble do you people live in? Redlining prevents someone from eating salad? 2+ jobs? Check out the housing projects in my neigborhood and tell me how many are working 2+ jobs. I drive a beat up 2002 subaru Outback, want me to post up a picture of my local housing project and see if you can find a car as crappy as mine in the picture? Poor Asian immigrant neighborhoods have grocery stores full of veggies. You people need to go back to the drawing board.

Rick, yes, Asian communities do often have a strong cultural tie to plant based diets. Other communities do not. And, yes, this is a part of the puzzle.

What I would like you to look into (TED talks are painless) and think about, is how differently your kids (if you have them) are being fed these days, versus when I was in elementary school. If you live in the "right" neighborhood, things are getting back to a good place, but I watched it change considerably for the worse over my almost six decades.

So, my school lunch cafeteria had ladies that actually cooked. Sure, the green beans came out of giant cans, but it was real food. There were no vending machines at all, which means no pop at school.

Sugar was still primarily in sweet things, and was not in products like frozen veggies, and canned tomatoes. Corn as a commodity crop was just starting, and soon it was in absolutely everything (yes, everything is an exaggeration, but barely).

Diet related diseases have sky rocketed, and not just related to weight. Autoimmune diseases, and the long, long list of diseases now tied to inflammation are just the start.

Obesity is rampant, and, it is now possible to be obese from birth. And, with a body that will hang on to those calories, giving you a lifelong struggle to break even.

There's a whole lot more to this, but please don't just toss it off entirely. Most all of us on here can eat as we please because we have the means to do so. But, that is not a given for everyone, for very complicated reasons.

Do look up some of what's out there, and please also bring compassion to the table.

Best, Helen

youtube.com/watch?v=HXaZyta…

ViperScale wrote:Eating alot and getting fat is more related to free soloing.

The only connection I can fathom is how some people free solo after a breakup

Tyler Pratt wrote:

“rob.calm wrote:
The obvious answer to this is that there are many other forms of exercise that do not have the inherent risk of climbing for serious injury and sudden death. rob.calm”

"Anything can kill you if you try hard enough.”

What’s special about climbing is that it can kill you even if you don’t try hard. Even on MP, I think I can say without fear of contradiction, that the risk of death or permanent injury from climbing is greater than that from walking, tennis, weight lifting, running, golf, etc. However, it is much safer than BASE jumping.

Rob.calm

ViperScale wrote: Being fat extremely limits what you can do in life. Free soloing only has the risk of death, but we are all going to die one day... the only question is how you get there.

This is a small point but the assertion is factually incorrect. I've known cases where free soloing has resulted in injuries that have left the climber impaired for the rest of his life (they've all been men).

rob.calm

Rick Blair wrote: Dude, have you ever looked at the price of a head of Romaine Lettuce or Broccoli? What language are you even speaking?

On a slight tangent: Junk food, by itself, is a massive problem (regardless of the availability of real food).

When you eat real food, your stomach sends signals to your brain saying "Kay, full, you can stop now" and you get full and *stop eating*.

When you eat junk food, it's designed have one of a few mixes of salts/fats/sugars that mess with this signal, so your brain doesn't get the "stop" signal until your stomach is physically starting to hurt from overfill.

It's hard to blame people /too much/ for overeating when *the food is designed to make you do so*.

Tylerpratt wrote:You can eat an absurd amount of food if you exercise enough and not gain weight.

Technically yes, realistically no. Exercise is a far less effective way of staying lean than eating healthy is. I am not sure what you consider an absurd amount of food, but let's say 6000kcal. That's basically about 1.7 Costco pizzas, which most people could probably eat over 24 hours if they really wanted to. Using 2000kcal a day as a reference for energy burned during daily activities, for a 150 lb man to burn 6000kcal he would have to run over 40 miles daily--an impossible task for almost everyone.

So while it's technically possibly to burn off that much energy with exercise, it's not really possible in realistic terms, especially for someone who is already overweight. At the end of the day, it's far easier to simply not eat two pizzas than it is to run 40 miles.

This has been an interesting read for me. I logged on tonight specifically to ask about weight and climbing. I'm new to the sport - my 10yo got the bug and is pulling me in. I'm 6'4" 265#. In my ice hockey playing days I was affectionately called "Fat Bastard". My build being what it is, I could stand to lose ~30# and am working toward that goal, but the extra poundage has never really kept me from participating in sports.

I was going to ask about belay issues with big differences in weight between partners, comment on how I've been surprised that - so far - my gut hasn't been as much of an issue on TR and <5.8 routes, yada yada yada.

No real point other than I find it the discussion interesting.

rob.calm wrote: This is a small point but the assertion is factually incorrect. I've known cases where free soloing has resulted in injuries that have left the climber impaired for the rest of his life (they've all been men). rob.calm

There is a risk that you have a gnarly accident amd cant walk or.something horrible, but the consequences of obesity are not in question. Essentially soloing requires that you accept a risk that, if realized, could make life be pretty awful or end it while obesity requires that you take constant risk while constantly exposing your body to the consequences of that choice. You won't die just because you are free soloing, but you will die simply BECAUSE you are obese.

Tim Lau wrote:This has been an interesting read for me. I logged on tonight specifically to ask about weight and climbing. I'm new to the sport - my 10yo got the bug and is pulling me in. I'm 6'4" 265#. In my ice hockey playing days I was affectionately called "Fat Bastard". My build being what it is, I could stand to lose ~30# and am working toward that goal, but the extra poundage has never really kept me from participating in sports. I was going to ask about belay issues with big differences in weight between partners, comment on how I've been surprised that - so far - my gut hasn't been as much of an issue on TR and <5.8 routes, yada yada yada. No real point other than I find it the discussion interesting.

Welcome to climbing!

My little boy got me sucked into it, except he's 6' something, 22yo, and I'm 5'- and almost 60!

There are numerous heavy climber, light belayer threads on here, but do yourself a favor and just ask the belayer, so you avoid the Old Lady rolling her eyes, grinding her teeth, and biting her tongue. Well, not the last. I'm the light belayer, and trust me, a few of us have had some experience with the big rigs. It's the belayer who deals with this, after all, not you, unless you have some really, really big friends. Although it is your carcass, so understandable!

Best, Helen

Ball, as it is right after my post, what point are you trying to make with the fuck you mom bit? Or was it just a Jack Daniels moment? Doesn't seem much like you.

Let's just be honest here. Anti-fat advice is ineffective for two major reasons:

1) Fat people generally don't want to hear it.

2) Fat people generally are more concerned about feeling good for the moment than seeking happiness, and a lot of them are increasingly virulently defending being what is essentially a narrow-minded self-centered hedonist (like us climbers sometimes LOL) with a new critical theory-based ideology to rationalize it (thankfully climbers aren't on the progressive stack yet).

Source: I used to be fat.

If you don't like being fat, you will seek the appropriate advice and do something about it.

That isn't to say the current obesity epidemic is mostly due to psychology. I'm only saying, like with everything else, humans do things for non-rational reasons then rationalize them after the fact. There is no doubt that Americans have never been more sedentary, lazy in terms of preparing food (eating processed crap), and constantly living in air conditioned environments (which makes one eat more). BS ideology didn't get us here, but we're now stuck here because of it.

Most people who claim they're being "fat shamed" are either being leaned on by concerned family/friends or they think being fat is the new normal and society should adapt to their fatness rather than vice versa.

The whole thing makes me question a lot of the snark I used to have for elders complaining about our hedonistic society.

Ball wrote:or they think being fat is the new normal

They would be right. Two out of three Americans are overweight. Sad really. We're always tough on terrorism, crime, drugs, ect but ignore the #1 killer of Americans--poor diet and lack of exercise.

Ball, thanks! Great post, and I don't disagree at all.

Part of my point, as an "elder" (aghhhh!), is that there are a lot of contributing factors, not the least of which is that our food has been considerably degraded.

Processed food is not just potato chips, Twinkies and Coke, it's spaghetti sauce and whole grain bread, stuff that can be healthy. And super tasty.

Even that romaine lettuce someone was waving around up thread. Romaine used to be a true, dark, leafy green, crunchy and slightly to more than slightly bitter. That color and flavor went away, as lettuce was grown faster, varieties developed that grew quickly, they were shipped across the country, and trimmed mercilessly at every step. By the time you grab that lettuce, what nutrients it had are long gone.

Buy that lettuce at a farmers market, or, better yet, grow it in your front yard, and you are back to something exploding with flavor (and, good for you).

Fortunately, we are finally getting back to a place where good food is available, but you have to invest time, money and effort into it.

Unfortunately, there was a decades long stretch where many of us had no choice but to take what they gave us, and went along with it.

All the ladies I know in their nineties not only know how to cook, they know how to "process" food straight from clucking to the pot. Women my age, burnt their bras, went to work, oh, oops, still had kids and were expected to take care of them, and "quick fixins'" became the norm. Processed food, even if you were cooking at home. Those ninety year olds did not invent green bean casserole.

And here we are, with two or three generations of all the harm that caused. Big Ag, big Pharma, big "health" care. I get credit off my health insurance payments for blood work proving I am not yet diabetic. I do not get credit for biking to work 100%, or spending $1800-2000 per year at the farmer's market.

And, at almost 60, I am acutely aware that my primary value from here on out, in our current system, is as fodder for the health care industry.

Told ya this is something I'm passionate about!

Want to be a long lived, badass climber? Seek out top quality food, and learn to cook!

Thanks again, ball, for the thoughtful post. Helen