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First Climb

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Jake3991 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

Hey all,
I'm planning my first trip for this winter. I am having a hard time deciding though. I was planning on going to Ecuador to do Cotopaxi and Chimborazo. I am considering a winter summit of Mt. Whitney in lieu of this.

I have no experience past 10000 ft. However I have quite a bit of hiking experience in Adirondacks, NY and southern California.

I just wanted to get a feel for what I am getting myself into. The Ecuador trip is run by American Alpine institute so its well put together, it includes time to acclimatize and a mountaineering school. It should be noted that the Whitney trip is the same formula.

My concern is me. I have not been to those altitudes or even done any snow or ice. I am a pretty fit 23 year old for reference. Is the trip to Ecuador reasonable for a first time trip or is Whitney a better starter climb?

Thanks for the input!

Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75

Do you want a cultural experience along with two great introductory peaks? Then go with Ecuador through AAI. I'd also highly recommend Alpenglow Expeditions, they run a great program and have excellent guides of which all are either AMGA certified or finishing their certification. If you live in SoCal you can go do Whitney over a weekend in the spring with a partner using the skills you learned in Ecuador.

That being said, when I did Cotopaxi it was pretty much a hike (slog) up a glacier which a couple crevasse crossings on ladders, otherwise pretty easily technically. I can't speak to Chimborazo. Ecuador is a great country with friendly locals, I think you'd dig it.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Jake,

Do you have any snow and glacier travel experience? Whitney in the winter is a cold way to learn mountaineering, plus you won't get the glacier/crevasse experience.

If you're just going for the mountaineering, stay in the states and take a class on Rainier or Baker. It'll save you a fair amount of money.

Like Tapawingo said, if the travel to a foreign land is a big part of what you want, then go for it! It will be summer down there if you go during our winter, so you won't be starting off with winter climbing. Probably be fun.

Andy Novak · · Bailey, CO · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 370

Guided Equador trip for SURE! Whitney will always be there, you may not have a chance to go back to Equador with a guide service handling all logistics.. Then do a Rainier trip next summer.

Jake3991 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

Thanks guys!

As for fitness and this being an achievable goal I am getting the feeling its pretty doable. Sort of Rainier scaled up?

Stormannorman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10

What are you going to do in Ecuador if YOU need to rescue somebody from either a Crevasse, Avalanche or both or any number of things. Could you live with your self if somebody died because you couldn't save them?

Learn Mountaineering before you go to the big Mountains. Don't be that guy who thinks he knows his stuff after a 3 day crash coarse in Mountaineering.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Stormannorman wrote:What are you going to do in Ecuador if YOU need to rescue somebody from either a Crevasse, Avalanche or both or any number of things. Could you live with your self if somebody died because you couldn't save them? Learn Mountaineering before you go to the big Mountains. Don't be that guy who thinks he knows his stuff after a 3 day crash coarse in Mountaineering.
He's going with a guided group to Equador. "Course."
Cory B · · Fresno, CA · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 2,577

Ecuador! You will have way more fun than freezing your ass off on Whitney in the winter.
+1 for Alpenglow expeditions

Stormannorman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10
FrankPS wrote: He's going with a guided group to Equador. "Course."
Still have to know your stuff, what happens if your guide dies? Man wouldn't that just ruin your life if somebody died due to your own incompetence?
Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
Stormannorman wrote: Still have to know your stuff, what happens if your guide dies? Man wouldn't that just ruin your life if somebody died due to your own incompetence?
I'd be interested to see how you learned to mountaineer without venturing into the mountains with minimal experience and practicing and/or taking an intro to mountaineering course with a guide teaching you the basics in a "controlled" environment. Did you just read FOTH on the couch and call it good?
Cory B · · Fresno, CA · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 2,577
Stormannorman wrote: Still have to know your stuff, what happens if your guide dies? Man wouldn't that just ruin your life if somebody died due to your own incompetence?
Dude, are you serious? Going on a beginner climb with a guide is a good way to learn how to be safe etc. What if the guide dies, are you joking?
How would you suggest he learn?
Stormannorman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10
C Brooks wrote: Dude, are you serious? Going on a beginner climb with a guide is a good way to learn how to be safe etc. What if the guide dies, are you joking? How would you suggest he learn?
The dude has never even been hiking before. He should learn basics of how to hike in snow and on rock with semi big up hill junts in his own country for a start. If he can't hike up Whitney in winter then what hope does he have on Cotopaxi? And yea what if his guide dies, guides die guiding clients all the time. What is this guy going to do, he has never even seen snow before. What if his guide gets injured and this guy can't help him then he dies? Could you live with yourself if that happened to you? I couldn't. I don't ever go on glaciers in a group of two anymore for that reason.
Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
Stormannorman wrote: The dude has never even been hiking before. He should learn basics of how to hike in snow and on rock with semi big up hill junts in his own country for a start. If he can't hike up Whitney in winter then what hope does he have on Cotopaxi? And yea what if his guide dies, guides die guiding clients all the time. What is this guy going to do, he has never even seen snow before. What if his guide gets injured and this guy can't help him then he dies? Could you live with yourself if that happened to you? I couldn't. I don't ever go on glaciers in a group of two anymore for that reason.
"However I have quite a bit of hiking experience in Adirondacks, NY and southern California."

Seems like he has hiking experience. And I climbed Cotopaxi with a guide prior to doing the Mountaineer Route up Whitney and lived to tell about it. Both were actually great learning experiences. We even summited Cotopaxi in blizzard conditions with 20 foot visibility, and *gasps* survived to tell the story. Your name suits you, you're a sensationalist, and the fact that anyone can learn something in a fashion differing from yourself is irresponsible, when in reality that's just not the case.
Stormannorman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10
Tapawingo wrote: "However I have quite a bit of hiking experience in Adirondacks, NY and southern California." Seems like he has hiking experience. And I climbed Cotopaxi with a guide prior to doing the Mountaineer Route up Whitney and lived to tell about it. Both were actually great learning experiences. We even summited Cotopaxi in blizzard conditions with 20 foot visibility, and *gasps* survived to tell the story. Your name suits you, you're a sensationalist, and the fact that anyone can learn something in a fashion differing from yourself is irresponsible, when in reality that's just not the case.
So if somebody died and you couldn't save them because you didn't have the skills or knowledge, you could live with that?
Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
Stormannorman wrote: So if somebody died and you couldn't save them because you didn't have the skills or knowledge, you could live with that?
Your question is completely irrelevant to this whole conversation but I'll bite. If I was looking to learn basic mountaineering skills after having a background of hiking and backpacking I would most definitely enroll in a mountaineering course, it's probably the best way to learn these skills. So in the event that an accident happened, I would live with it. Would I be deeply saddened and potentially question a lifestyle consisting of climbing? Yes.

However the fact is, that guides offer these courses to teach individuals how to travel safely in the mountains, typically on a team with a lead guide an assistant guide depending on the group to minimize the risks of travelling with novice clients. Furthermore, guides take on these responsibilities knowing that they need to cover certain safety protocols with their clients prior to entering potentially dangerous terrain - hence it being called a mountaineering course.
Cory B · · Fresno, CA · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 2,577

Jake, don't listen to the haters. If you want to climb Whitney in the winter, send me a PM. As long as you have the gear, I would happy to bring you up the mountaineer's route this winter. I love freezing my ass off in the winter in the Sierra's.
I

Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
C Brooks wrote:Jake, don't listen to the haters. If you want to climb Whitney in the winter, send me a PM. As long as you have the gear, I would happy to bring you up the mountaineer's route this winter. I love freezing my ass off in the winter in the Sierra's. I
But you could die!! (sarcasm)
Stormannorman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10

That is were you learn,on basic stuff in a basic Mountain system. Learn how to hike on snow first at least before you hit the Andes. The Andes are a big and powerful mountain system that will kill you in a second.

That dude isn't really doing a Mountaineering program, he is doing a guided climb with some basic instruction. How much can you learn in a week if you have never even hiked on snow before? Hardly learn to walk with crampons on.

tnease Nease · · Ronald, WA · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 10

i did the Ecuador trip through AAI (Cayambe, Cotopaxi) and I highly recommend it. Great experience and I did learn quite a bit. It was my first mountaineering experience and it was a good foundation of knowledge to build on.

Stormannorman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10

Maybe that is how 13 people died in one Avalanche on Cotopaxi in 1996.

Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
Stormannorman wrote:Maybe that is how 13 people died in one Avalanche on Cotopaxi in 1996.
Everyone killed in that avalanche were at the refugio, which is a popular tourist destination that you can drive to then hike a quarter mile up a hill. Hardly an argument for your case.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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