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Confessions of a zinc-plated bolter

Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

Do you know how to calibrate yours? I use them all the time at my job. I have probably installed tend of thousands of anchors. Plated, anodized, stainless and even hot dipped galvanized. I put vibrating things in place that could harm hundreds of people should my anchors fail.

jonathan knight · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 265

Follow the innovation. The handful of climbing companies producing hardware are investing in SS and Ti.

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Mike Lane wrote:Do you know how to calibrate yours? I use them all the time at my job. I have probably installed tend of thousands of anchors. Plated, anodized, stainless and even hot dipped galvanized. I put vibrating things in place that could harm hundreds of people should my anchors fail.
I find it pretty telling that you choose only to respond to the joke and not the legitimate points.
Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

I'm rolling with a mobile phone and should be more focused on work so I am not being very thorough

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Mike Lane wrote:I'm rolling with a mobile phone and should be more focused on work so I am not being very thorough
Haha fair enough... esp if your placing vibrator anchors where they can fall and harm people.
Joseph Crotty · · Carbondale, CO · Joined Nov 2002 · Points: 1,903

"Time is money." - Benjamin Franklin

Re-bolting routes is time intensive. Even more so if using sustainable (i.e., original hole re-use) methods. The $50 dollars you saved by installing plated steel hardware comes up way short on covering the cost of time to reequip the route 15-25 years earlier then if you had used stainless steel.

“In this world, you get what you pay for.” - Kurt Vonnegut

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

Well for those who want to buy stainless bolts for replacing bolts that were placed back when no one even thought about stainless steel (we're all just glad they finally thought 1/4" was kind of sketchy!) - please donate today (and get anyone you know who needs a tax deduction to donate!). We're almost to 12,000, and Planet Granite will match up to 20,000, so anything donated now gets doubled!

Donate button is in the upper right! You can also mail a check if you want (yeah yeah, "what's a 'check'? Are you old or something?"...).

www.safeclimbing.org

bus driver · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 1,516

I don't even clip that that shit. If I show up at a crag and it's done with plated steel, I just piss on the first foothold and leave.

. . . But really, donate to the asca.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711

John, thanks for considering stainless!

Vela Draga Croatia non-stainless hardware rock discoloration

Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376
bus driver wrote:I don't even clip that that shit. If I show up at a crag and it's done with plated steel, I just piss on the first foothold and leave. . . . But really, donate to the asca.
Haha thanks for the morning chuckle.
Jason Haas · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 1,582

I appreciate all the people that have contacted me in regards to getting cheaper stainless steel bolts through the Boulder Climbing Community. I am happy to help people out but please keep in mind you have to be local meaning you can physically come pick them up from me directly - we will not ship/mail bolts anywhere. Thanks and sorry for any confusion.

Andrew Arredondo · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 175

Are you suggesting that you don't exclusively use glue in ti bolts? For shame...

jonathan knight · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 265

Having managed a group buy for folks that have assisted with the SLCA's Wasatch Anchor Replacement Initiative, I know where Jason is coming from. It's a PITA to manage such procurements. You'd better fugging earn it.

LL2 · · Santa Fe, NM · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 174

Times have changed. 20+ years ago here in the Wasatch, we were just glad people were putting up routes at all. And like someone said, just the fact that 3/8" bolts were going in was seen as progress. Years ago at Ceuse, it seemed the ethic was to get a route up by whatever means, then time and consensus would determine if bolts should be moved, then they'd get replaced with glue ins. The 5 piece Rawl non-stainless became the standard, nobody complained, they were just happy to climb new routes. I clipped old 1/4" button heads on trad routes back in those days and that was just part of the game. On sport routes, I've placed my share of 3/8" 5 piece non-stainless Rawls. Our ethic then was long or 1/2" for anchors, "must not fail" bolts, or crux bolts. Shorter or slimmer was okay for "non-critical" bolts.

Now there are a hell of a lot more of us out there. Times have changed. And sport climbing is different from trad climbing, and so should be the attitude toward fixed gear. There is an assumption (right or wrong) that a sport route has "good gear". We can debate whether or not that makes sense, but the fact remains. Personally, at an area likely to receive a lot of traffic, I like the Ceuse method I described above. Because, face it, everyone hates the bolt that's too high or too low, or hard to clip unless it's got a draw on it. If that bolt is a glue in from the start it will be forever hated.

My attitude has changed with the times, though I don't place them any more. I'm also a lot less broke now than I was then. Last crag I bolted, I'd be more concerned about holds pulling off than the bolts pulling out. By the time the bolts fail, there might not be any handholds. In summary, weigh the permanence of the rock against the permanence of the bolt, and use the appropriate bolt ;)

Just joking. Times have changed. If it's a sport route, you owe it to everyone else to put in the best gear.

Mark Thomas · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,635

Dang. I'm just getting into bolting and doing so VERY carefully because I don't want any blood on my hands. Maybe it's because I'm a structural engineer and am used to making design decisions every day that can kill people and dealing with the morality issues of 'informed consent' from uninformed/unwilling users, but man, seeing the attitude of some bolters here has me even more eager to learn how to bolt better to avoid being subjected to your morally careless attitude! Regulations and availability of cheap parts aside... Also, I have had more than a few instances where I wished that I had the gear and knowhow to upgrade existing hardware because I value my life more than the cost of a mid-range burger & beer dinner, but those were on relics and bolts damaged by rockfall partway down multi-rappel descents. I know now to be a lot more suspicious on bolts put up by some people now!...

Scratch or no, either don't do the climb, man up and downclimb it or another accessible route, down-aid it, find a walkoff, and/or leave ratty slings and nuts so that people don't implicitly trust the crap you have placed up there if you're going to intentionally place bad hardware. And for more obscure lines, that is even MORE important. IMO, ignorance and changing times/gear/knowledge are the only excuse for bad anchors. At best case, you are leaving trash that is hard to clean up (consider it tagging the route as you rapp). At worst case, you are potentially killing someone.

At least for rappelling, I'd at least hope that anyone using up bad hardware distributes the risk and combines one questionable bolt with one good bolt at each station, rather than a completely questionable station...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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