Turkey Rocks accident

Sorry to hear about this, and glad that the individual is going to be okay.

Part of the reason that the perch is a good learning ground is that there ARENT any bolts at the top. New climbers can get experience finding and building anchors, and belaying the follower up and walking off. This is and should continue to be a part of the experience on moderate routes here.

Any bolts here still wouldn't make for a nice lower, the rope would grind on the slab or become stuck or seated in the flaring cracks on the lip of these routes.

I would be in favor of establishing a refrigerator route at turkey.
.. .interested in finding out exactly what that means.. hmmmmmmmm

Weekend Warrior wrote: Not sure it's worth a life or severe injury to pretend otherwise (or so you can claim you have not been "pussified"! By the way, I LOVE that term!).

Thats really sexist

Weekend Warrior wrote: People are going to climb at Turkey Perch whether or not they have had proper instruction in setting anchors.

As any place else.

This is to the point, Weekend Warrior.

Questions still remain. Was this human error, gear failure, a combination, or something else? It was stated earlier in the posts that this was a two piece anchor. Can anyone verify cause of failure, and how the anchor was constructed?

Also, any status on the climber that fell - condition ok? I can't imagine going through the same process you have witnessed other climbers experience safely only to have catastrophic consequences during your experience. Tragic!

I think the only bolts that should be allowed to remain at turkey rocks are the ones placed on lead and i'm sketchy about those.I started climbing at the rocks before most of the members on this forum were a leak in their old mans condom so I do have some history in the area. I also know a lot about the bolt war's of the 80's.

A refrigerator is where one stores a turkey- the leftovers, the right overs, etc. also refrigerators have compressors so my brain goes places. If you get the reference good for you :)

Climbed at the perch today. I saw the blood, but was hoping that I was mistaken and it was just spilled food or something. Best wishes to the injured climber for a complete recovery.

Fwiw, I agree that the anchors at the top of LHJ or Honky require more careful consideration than many other top rope areas. I arrived at the anchor with my normal multipitch kit of a cordellete, a few leftover pieces and a small assortment of slings. I was able to construct a safe anchor, but it was not a textbook solution that a beginner climber might consider. I think an important point for this situation is that if you're unhappy with the anchoring options or can't make a redundant system, then don't climb the route. Or walk off and have your partner lead it as well. Top roping or rappelling with anything other than a bombproof anchor leaves no margin for error. Similarly, never climb on an anchor that you haven't inspected or at least have 100% confidence in the climber who constructed it.

I'm sure the injured party has a long road to recovery, and hope that his misfortune at least helps us be more aware in the mountains.

Early in my climbing I learned a ton building anchors on a long trip to Joshua Tree. The top outs at turkey rocks have always reminded me a lot of those at Joshua tree. I am glad I learned that skill, I am glad there are places where you are required to do that. I am also glad there are places like CCC with bolts. Seek the experience you want to have. Have the experience you want to seek. By no way am I passing judgement on the climbers involved, I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, it is sad that someone was injured. To change the nature of the area would be to rob future climbers of a unique place to hone a skill. You can argue that bolting would make it safer but where does that end? Do you bolt every place where someone has been injured? Every place a cam has blown? I love sport and I love trad, I love mixed routes. I love bolted anchors, I love gear anchors I love unique anchor building challenges. There are plenty of sport climbs and climbs with bolted anchors and there are plenty of climbs with gear anchors. Seek the experience you want to have, adapt yourself to the place and accept the challenge.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured climber

I can set up a top rope at the Turkey Perch. Even in my current, old, and fat incarnation. It's a pain in the ass on Left Handed Jew, and more than a bit tricky. Not for the newb to undertake. It's also a route that newbs or the out of shape will "take" on. It's also a route that newbs flock to...

Question: what ethic is being upheld by not installing top anchors?

Answer: Zero ETHIC is being upheld.

What is being touted is a matter of STYLE. It is not a matter of ethics, and don't think for a second it is ethics. It is STYLE. An old, silly STYLE. A style I grew up with. But very silly in the day of $20 anchors that last a decade or 4.

Now. How many newbs deserve to get hurt because it is tricky to set anchors on a single pitch "trad" sport climb because of YOUR sense of style? Seriously. Ask yourself that. 1? 2? Will you look those newbs in the eye and explain to them how your STYLISTIC choice was so important?

Yeah. Literally. Go visit the injured in the hospital. Explain to them how your sense of style is so important. Explain to them how their (and our) practice crag can't have top anchors because the baby Jesus would cry or whatever.

Note: we aren't talking about the Diamond or El Cap or some beautiful mulit-pitch line. We are taking about PRACTICE routes at Turkey Perch. Guess what?!?!? You could ignore any bolts and set your own trad anchors if you desired... Turkey Perch is a training ground.

Climbers are really stupid sometimes.

teece303 wrote:Question: what ethic is being upheld by not installing top anchors? Answer: Zero ETHIC is being upheld.

All your remarks assume that Turkey Perch is a top roping area. I don't think anyone should assume that. This is the first top roping accident I have heard of there.

Those climbs at Turkey Perch are excellent. Climbing is inherently dangerous bolts or no bolts. Hate that someone got hurt. Let's all pay attention out there!

If you are going to practice climbing at turkey rocks then practice climbing, which means set up a belay and, heaven forbid someone stay on top and not hurry back down for selfie time. Setting up a top rope is not practice for a multi-pitch climb.Most climbing these days is not climbing but merely ascending.Or should I say "sending", and where the hell did that stupid saying come from.

Weekend Warrior wrote: Having top rope anchors at Turkey Perch isn't going to do anything more than make it more safe for the level of climber that uses it.

First, I'm very sorry to hear about the accident. I wish the injured party a speedy recovery.

Second, I think Weekend Warrior is wrong to assume that top rope anchors will make climbing 'safe.' It's also wrong to think that beginners are the only ones climbing at the Perch. Plenty of climbers of all experience levels go there. Adding bolts to the top of climbs there will only change the way that people have accidents there. Has there ever been an accident in a place with bolted top rope anchors?

The ethic that is trying to be preserved is not just about climbing. It's about maintaining some level of wild places where your safety is not guaranteed. In our risk adverse society, we may want to put safety warnings on everything and pad every sharp edge so that no one gets hurt. But, that is not the answer. People need to learn the judgement and the skills to keep themselves safe when they go to places like this.

How many tens of thousands have TR'd that route without incident?

C. Holt wrote:How did the slung boulder fail? Knot failure?

Per a witness who was 50 feet from the accident, "It appeared that the sling slipped over the top of the boulder."

SammyJ wrote: Per a witness who was 50 feet from the accident, "It appeared that the sling slipped over the top of the boulder."

That's especially unfortunate, then, since all of the boulders at top are leaning against each other creating pinch points that would prevent this if you thread them (which is also really easy to do). Again, condolences and best wishes for the climber and his party.

teece303 wrote:We are taking about PRACTICE routes at Turkey Perch....Climbers are really stupid sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI (couldn't resist)

Turkey rocks is a great place to PRACTICE building anchors, In my eyes this climber was fortunate the perch is a single pitch PRACTICE area. If these folks were even a couple pitches up, an anchor failure could have been catastrophic for the whole party.

If there is one arena in this world where people can/should assume ANY & ALL responsibility for their actions it is/should be climbing & mountaineering.

IMO safety can be boiled down to 2 main factors 1) educating yourself 2) PRACTICE which will inherently facilitate the development of strong assessment skills perhaps most importantly self assessment.

Style is important, it's how we interact with our environment in our own unique way and many climbers believe that style is everything.

RangerJ wrote: Second, I think Weekend Warrior is wrong to assume that top rope anchors will make climbing 'safe.' It's also wrong to think that beginners are the only ones climbing at the Perch. Plenty of climbers of all experience levels go there. Adding bolts to the top of climbs there will only change the way that people have accidents there. Has there ever been an accident in a place with bolted top rope anchors?

100% agree-- adding anchors will change the type of lowering accidents that occur, not eliminate them. Whether errors decrease in frequency will largely be a function of whether the popularity of the area changes.

teece303 wrote:How many newbs deserve to get hurt because it is tricky to set anchors on a single pitch "trad" sport climb because of YOUR sense of style? Seriously. Ask yourself that. 1? 2? Will you look those newbs in the eye and explain to them how your STYLISTIC choice was so important? Yeah. Literally. Go visit the injured in the hospital. Explain to them how your sense of style is so important. Explain to them how their (and our) practice crag can't have top anchors because the baby Jesus would cry or whatever. ......... Climbers are really stupid sometimes.

...... stupid sometimes. I got trolled..... damn.

We were at the Turkey Perch the day before this accident for the first time ever and we had a blast. Many options exist with gear, slung boulders, etc. at the top of all of these climbs. It was helpful that we had another rope in order to rig an anchor at the top. We did top rope after leading each climb and anchors were not a big issue. I don't think bolts are the answer here people, but using your brain and trad anchor building experience is! Wishing the injured climber a speedy recovery.

My work colleague was on a route less than 50 feet away and witnessed the accident. He said the TR anchor was two cams, and that about a half-dozen folks had already done the pitch. Sounds reasonable to figure the repeated weighting/un-weighting caused the cams to walk, eventually leaving their placement.
IMO, lesson is obvious: sling a mature tree, large rock, or place at least three bomber passive nuts for TR anchor. I'd NEVER rely upon cams for this. Probably showing my age (late 50s), but I use active pro only when quick placement's crucial to avoid getting pumped. I realize that properly used they're reliable, very adaptive to varying crack sizes. Trusting cam(s) to hold leader fall, fine. TR or rap anchor, NFW.