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Figure 8 vs Double Bowline

Rob Cotter · · Silverthorne, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 240
Antonio Caligiuri wrote: Looking for a SPECIFIC explanation of how a retraced bowline can come untied on its own. But thanks for your detailed and constructive response.
Ach, laddie, yer welcome...
Rockbanned brett · · Plattsburgh, Ny · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 215
John Wilder wrote:Yosemite finish on your fig-8 will make your knot very easy to untie. make sure not to pull the finish tight, but instead leave a bit of space so you can pull the rope out of the knot. the bowline is fine, provided you back it up and check it after every pitch if you're climbing multipitch. make damn sure to back it up, though, as otherwise it can and will come undone.
+1 dude...
Lester Arguelles · · Chicago, IL · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

I don't use the double bowline for the very reason that it is so likely to come undone if not backed up.

However, I use a more secure variation on it, the double bowline retrace, which I suspect is much less likely to come undone without a backup knot, perhaps to the level of a figure 8, though I have not seen any data around it.

My only test of this is a climbing partner of mine, who showed me yet another a variation of the retrace, which has 3 loops around the trigger, and who for many, many years has never backed it up (he is a local at the Red River gorge, KY).

I think it's time folk started talking about the double bowline retrace, which does no cinch up on falls, and provides a significant measure of security when not backed up.

Allan-sf · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 0

Was just watching Vertical Frontier (about the Yosemite Camp 4 battle), and
noticed some very old footage (40's?) of someone tying in.

It was a bowline, but backed up with a fishermans around the loop, even in
that day and age.

Stan Hampton · · St. Charles, MO · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 0
Ryan Williams wrote: There are a lot of ways to tie a bowline but there is only one Figure 8 Follow Through. It is a standard.
Actually there are 4 ways to tie the figure 8 follow
knot. Two of them are better than the other two and are mirror images of each other. I call them "better" figure 8 follow knots, one being tied "right-handed" and the other "left-handed". The other two are inferior knots and also mirror images of each other. Most people can't tell the difference and have no clue as to why one is better than the other. Something for you knot geeks to see if you can figure out.

Btw, as long as people are talking about knot terminology, the knot that is typically used to backup a bowline is not a double fisherman's. It's a double overhand tied around the load strand. A double fisherman's knot is used to tied two ends of rope(s) together and consists of two double overhands, each tied around the "other" rope and then pulled toward each other where they "bump" up against each other and lock up.
Note: to tie a double fishermans correctly, the second double overhand is tied in the opposite direction around the rope as the first. This is easily done by tying the first and then roatating the ropes 180 degrees and tying the second in exactly the same way. Now you know the easy way to tie a clean and well dressed double fisherman's knot.
Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
Lorenzo wrote:1000 lead fall? Dude. .. That's more dangerous than what knot you are using. Stop doing that.
climbing friend,

if you do not forge yourself reborn from experience of many 1000s of crushings and 1000s of safe lead falls, you will be terrible climber. the fear it is the mind killer yes.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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