Minimal Competence Require to Climb Big Walls

Take it ST, Will S/BillS, you'll have more fun there. Honest and ego free discussions are what we do here.

Slow is too slow when you have other teams backing up behind you. Slow is too slow when you are affecting other parties experience. Don't forget that your experience is not the most important experience on a climb, others have worked hard to get the time off, and have spent money to travel to Yosemite to climb. The best experience is where everyone wins.

Mark,

I feel like you are asking way too much when you suggest that people should be considerate of others! If only this principle could be applied to all walks of life and not just big wall climbing.

Xam, that's a tough one. The whole idea of moving along and not affecting other parties and having the skills to climb a route is difficult. The walls are simply crowded these days, there are a lot of climbers out there who want to climb walls.
Learning to aid on the first pitches of the Salathe or Nose in peak season is obviously a bad idea. Leaning Tower is crowded, the SF of WC is crowded, I don't have an easy answer. Maybe showing up and scoping the start of the Mescalito or Dawn Wall, P1 of the Trip or the first few of the Dihedral.

Hans Florine said it best, "the solution that makes everyone happy is always the best solution".

DaEyeDoc wrote:Mark, I feel like you are asking way too much when you suggest that people should be considerate of others! If only this principle could be applied to all walks of life and not just big wall climbing.

Totally, eh!

Mark,
Edit: nvrmnd you answered above...well sorta

My point is not gumbies getting in the way of crushers. That is not the point of this post. EVERYONE I have personally climbed up behind has been more than willing to let me pass, that's not my point.
My point is that climbers need to take a more honest assessment of their skills before going up on a route.

BigB, to tell you the truth, if I were starting out today, I wouldn't know where to go. Kevin Deweese is probably going apoplectic right now, yelling at his computer screen, "look in the freakin' guidebook! There are literally hundreds of route that see less than 2 parties in 10 years!"

Mark Hudon wrote:My point is that climbers need to take a more honest assessment of their skills before going up on a route.

Maybe this should be a thread starting. How to assess/match abilities to routes.

Check out a climbing club or get a guide (if you can invest in enough gear to do a wall; you can afford a 1 day sesh with a guide) then do what Chris Mac and Jared Ogden said to do; go out and clean climb a 5.11 crack and time yourself until you make some serious progress. Sit at the top of the pitch and set up a 2:1 haul system (see Mark Hudon or Pete Zabrok) from scratch. Haul 125 pounds in a 1:1 system so you know what it feels like. Boulder with aiders on skyhooks so you know what sound rock is and how sketch a hook move on a slab crack can be. Set up a portaledge from scratch on 2 bolts (doing it in the garage is not real) while hanging.

Read the books on Big Wall Climbing from Chris Macnamara, Jared Ogden or John Long. Get to the crags and clean aid the hardman routes then repeat and compare times; you'll see the difference. The knowledge is out there, practice makes perfect and not every one is owed a mentor. Salathe, Robbins, Harding Chouinard and Pratt all learned the hard way. You DO learn best from the mistakes that don't kill you so keep it safe and basic. Tons of routes to do in Yosemite without CF'ing trade routes. Buy a guidebook, ask the mountain shop guys and use your imagination. That 5 pitch 5.11 plus crack; it takes cams and nuts; go aid it. Zion is a great place for beginner walls especially in winter when no one wants to free climb Moonlight Buttress or Space Shot or Touchstone.

Check out climbing clubs with more experienced guys and earn a trip up a wall with them after you show you are prepared. Check out:

www.rowcc.com
www.vertical-adventures.com
climbing.com/news/your-firs…
mountainproject.com/v/21-ha…

When you are ready; set sail knowing that your preparation and hard work is going to pay off huge fun dividends !

Mark Hudon wrote: Maybe showing up and scoping the start of the Mescalito or Dawn Wall, P1 of the Trip or the first few of the Dihedral.

Thanks, Mark...this is what I was looking for. I certainly understand the standard progression but was hoping for alternatives to the standard first walls to do that don't contribute to the cluster. I hate climbing at my limit with someone stuck bored behind me, which is what I would expect for my first few walls. If anyone has similar suggestions for Zion in addition to those above, I would appreciate it.

Another tip, Xam, would be try to hit the trades is the very off season. I'm not familiar with where you might find a nice 2 pitch route to practice aid on but being creative and thinking out of the box is the first requirement of big wall success.

Pass the Pitons Pete said it and it is very true, "brig wall climbing is a CONSTANT problem solving endevour".

Kevin Graves, excellent post. Thanks.

I agree with you Mark. If you have to climb a chimney by aiding up your big bros...I mean come on, youre not even climbing anymore you just pulling on gear.

Xam-

As far as learning around town-

mountainproject.com/v/color…

but maybe don't try this on a nice weekend

Can't really recommend the Hallucinogen as a first wall unless, well, you don't need to ask anyone how to do it, but maybe drag a bag up the Scenic Cruise midweek and you'll get the idea. Or try the Astrodog 2-Boulder Bivy plan and pull through the hard parts. Midweek at the Turkey Rocks is probably good for the C1 practice, but then you'll never get to onsight Whimsical Dreams so maybe lay off of that one until after the free attempt. Obscure finger/hand cracks are what you're after, ideally a couple-three pitches so you can haul and get into the flow.

Yosemite: I don't think anyone goes up to the S. Face of Washington Column between April and October without a reasonable expectation of clusterage, but there's a few less popular things out there:
The Gold Wall, esp. the aid variation; Erik Sloan's new thing Good ol Boy VI 5.8 A2 on the Camp 4 Wall that he suggests is a perfect 'trainer wall' (in his new wall book); Lurking Fear of course, although it's not unpopular; the NW Face of Higher Cathedral (Robbins route, perpetually deserted); La Escuela (2-pitch 'schoolroom' crack on the base of El Cap, but I don't like hanging out there in season).

From the locals:
Yosemite Practice Aid Circuit

Rob T wrote: Organasm and The Pulpit are great for general skills practice. Prodigal Sun and Disco Inferno are nice longer routes where you're unlikely to run into free climbers.

Thanks Rob T! There are plenty of single pitch climbs around here to practise aid on but it is great to get suggestions for a first big trip to look forward to that gets a bit away from the fray.

Thanks for speaking up Mark- really appreciate your posts on the site. Cheers and have fun out there.

Ever drive during rush hour and have a traffic jam that is caused by some slow drivers? Seems like your argument in a nutshell. The traffic will never change if anything it'll just get worse.

If the DMV can expand highways why can't NPS expand routes?

Mark Hudon wrote:My point is that climbers need to take a more honest assessment of their skills before going up on a route.

It also applies to non-wall climbing like one-day multipitch routes, though I can imagine the scale of the problems caused by being unprepared is a lot higher on walls.

Mark Hudon wrote:... I'd even say that understanding of big wall systems is 30% lower than what it was in the 70's. A fast ascent, these days, is a few days longer than an average ascent back then...

i would be way beyond shocked if people are doing walls slower than they were in the 70's. no frickin way man. there's just a lot more people out there so it is more readily noticeable when things are going slow.

I don't know what it is but a disproportionate percentage of the sketchy, low-skill level people I have climbed with have expressed interest in wall climbing at one point or another.

Lets worry about getting solid on 5.6 first..