Slinging a Nut Wire

Scenario: You are climbing a pitch and have already run it out a fair bit. You find a great nut placement with no other options in sight, the only issue is that the wire length puts the biner over a lip of the rock.

In this situation would it be acceptable practice to use a sling and basket/girth hitch the wire to get the biner off the rock? Or would the wire likely cut into/through the sling in the event of a fall?

Better to just leave the biner on the lip? Just keep running it out hoping for better placements further up?

Other solutions?

use basket hitch, not clove hitch. I do this fairly regularly.

Hmm...not a huge fan of the idea of hitching a wire, for the reasons mentioned. What about using a locking biner?

Basket hitch. Definitely.
I think DMM has a video about that.

Edit: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/i…

Huh. Fair enough.

wivanoff wrote:Basket hitch. Definitely. I think DMM has a video about that. Edit: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/i…

Awesome! Thanks for finding and posting that.

wivanoff wrote:Basket hitch. Definitely. I think DMM has a video about that. Edit: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/i…

Beat me to it.

DMM has lots of great videos.

Push the wire through on another nut,,don't hitch it , just loop it and then clip both ends and go

You can do the same with a fixed pin that is buried.

john strand wrote:Push the wire through on another nut,,don't hitch it , just loop it and then clip both ends and go

Is that different than a basket hitch? (for the runner)

What Dave said.

Joined nuts

Medic and Dave, is this what you are referring to?

CornCob wrote: Medic and Dave, is this what you are referring to?

This looks like a great way to kink the shit out of the wires on two nuts. I'll stick to the basket, or even a girth for that matter.

Dave Schultz wrote:you can also join two nuts together by feeding ends through the eyes of the wire.

I can place a nut and basket hitch it one handed. Can you join those two nuts together one handed?

I'll just basket hitch it... Draw had a sling on it that I was going to use anyway... What if I want or need that other nut later...

Plus the basket hitch is less likely to damage things.

The basket hitch is better than "larks foot" with two nuts. The DMM tests indicate the basket hitch---with both dyneema and nylon---is about 26% stronger.

DMM Tests

Add to this the fact that using two nuts ties up a second nut you might be able to use elsewhere, and creates a more easily dislodged placement by virtue of a two nut-length moment arm, and you have an inferior solution to the problem of levering a carabiner over an edge.

(You can set up the nut-to-nut configuration one-handed...but don't bother!)

Dave Schultz wrote: Definitely, can't you? Might be something to work on next time.

Never tried it one handed. Seems it would be too fiddly when I'm pumped. And the basket hitch is easier and safer.

Agreed! But for the record (and no other particularly good reason in view of the DMM numbers), here is the one-handed method, which however isn't always doable.

1. Place the first nut.

2. Pull the second nut away from its end so that there is a wire loop you'll ultimately clip after joining the second nut to the first. This step (which could also be done later) might be the one-hand deal-breaker...it depends on how hard it is to move the nut from its usual position on the wire.

3. If you manage step 2, move the second nut so that the first nut's wire goes through the clip-in loop of the second nut. Slide the second nut's clip-in loop all the way up the first nut's wire as far as you can, drop or insert the second nut through the clip-in loop of the first nut, and pull tight.

That's what I was trying to say Rich. it's easier and faster than putting 2 nuts together.

Just slide the wire from the nut, you ready to go and loop any hangerless bolts you come across as well
I pretty much always carry a wire pushed through like this.

he only reason i'd put 2 nuts together as shown above is for extended reach.

rgold wrote:The basket hitch is better than "larks foot" with two nuts. The DMM tests indicate the basket hitch---with both dyneema and nylon---is about 26% stronger. Add to this the fact that using two nuts ties up a second nut you might be able to use elsewhere, and creates a more easily dislodged placement by virtue of a two nut-length moment arm, and you have an inferior solution to the problem of levering a carabiner over an edge. (You can set up the nut-to-nut configuration one-handed...but don't bother!)

Maybe I'm reading DMM's chart differently from you, but to me, it looks like the only test performed of nut to nut lark's foot was with a number 1 wallnut to another number 1 wallnut. The other tests are being performed with nylon or dyneema lark's footed to the nut.

The other lark's foots are performed with Number 1 wallnut has a breaking strength of 7kn, per DMM's website. The test showed a strength of >7kn for the nut-nut lark's foot join.. aka, 100% strength for this connection.

The 9kn strengths shown for the basket hitch for the 1kn nut are above the stated breaking strength of the nut in normal use conditions. In that case, maybe we should always be basket hitching our small nuts?

rgold wrote:Agreed! But for the record (and no other particularly good reason in view of the DMM numbers),

One potential reason is if you are out of slings. Not ideal, but not a bad trick to know in a pinch. I put this one in "better than nothing" category.

rgold wrote:Agreed! But for the record (and no other particularly good reason in view of the DMM numbers), here is the one-handed method, which however isn't always doable. 1. Place the fir.....

Here is how I interpreted your steps.

Steps 1 and 2.

Step 3, part 1.

Step 3, part 2.

john strand wrote:That's what I was trying to say Rich. it's easier and faster than putting 2 nuts together.

Is this the same thing you had in mind john?