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Trango Vergo

Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90

THE concern is that response deflects, rather than answers, the question. They both work using a similar mechanism, they both do have a pin (you can see it). So the question is what changed to improve durability of the pin, and holding power once worn. Theremay in fact be changes, but people want to be assured Trango did indeed consider it in their design.

Fwiw, has anyone confirmed the statement that the issue was addressed and resolved 10 years ago, and only annissue with devices built before 2006?

Raymond Moreno · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 140

I never said anything negative about the Vergo.

I just read a few reviews about the "pin wear," and decided to go directly to Trango with my question instead of listening to hearsay.

Too much is being said about the new Vergo WITHOUT it even being out to the public yet.

"It looks like" has never been a reason to discredit something without having examined it first-hand, and then practically/physically trying it out.

Always amazes me how people make critical comments before actually tasting the pudding.

If someone has owned a Cinch, and didn't like it...that's fine.

I'm sure there are folks who love the Cinch and dislike the Grigri 2 as well.

It's okay to have a personal preference, for whatever reason. (Ergonomics of the device, weight, function, the way it works for thicker or thinner ropes, hand size making it easier to use, type of climbing done, etc.

Just take a breath and wait for the reviews as they come in.

But quit prejudging something based on looks.

If you are right, that's fine. If you re wrong, that's fine also.

But, "Dang"...so much hate for a product without having the proof yet.

In Christ: Raymond

cyclestupor · · Woodland Park, Colorado · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 91

"Hate" is a bit of a strong word. I am simply skeptical. I think that everyone should know that the Vergo looks extremely similar in operation to the Cinch, and that the Cinch had problems before they go and spend their hard earned cash on the Vergo.

If some gumby who has never heard of the Cinch buys a Vergo because of some glowing pre-release review, they may be in for a disappointment (or they may be perfectly happy with their purchase for years to come). The point is that only time will tell.

Tee Kay · · Seattle, WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 110

my lefty friend loves his cinch.
curious about the hand turnaround on the vergo

sorry if this has already been discussed in the 3 pages...

Raymond Moreno · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 140

I got a smoking deal on a Vergo, and just got an email this morning (Tuesday, Sept 27th), that it has been shipped to me.

I'm hoping for the best.

Will update after a week or so of use.

In Christ: Raymond

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

I love my Cinch. And I'm sure I'll like the Vergo.

The GriGri is just a version of the Cinch, and vice versa.

Clint White aka Faulted Geologist · · Lawrence, KS · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 151

Hoping a local KC climber will share theirs soon.

In Constant State of Evolution: Clint

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I got to look at and feel out the vergo in the local gear shop yesterday and, while I haven't used a cinch very extensively, it looks and feels pretty similar, although it seemed a little bit smaller and a bit heavier. I'm not sure whether or not they addressed the issues with the pin wear.

Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78
amarius wrote:Of course, it is possible that the Trango Vergo is Cinch 1 with exactly same parts but different color scheme, but how can one make that logical connection from Trango rep's email?
I can conclude that this is more accurately called a Cinch 2, rather than a truly new device, because we can see the internals. The two devices share the same unique mechanism and structure. The body shape has changed changed a bit, but the fundamentals are the same, and are not shared with any other belay device on the market that I know of. See below:

Cinch vs. vergo. Sources: Top left: MEC.ca. Top right: Trango.com. Bottom left: eskalartienda.com. Bottom right: splitterchoss.com.
Cinch on the left, vergo on the right. It's clearly the same basic design. The channel the rope runs through has roughly the same dimensions, the plates swinging around the same hollow central axle, the position of the attachment point, the pin, etc.

Of course, the redesign is welcome given the changes to the way the device was originally designed to be used vs. what Trango discovered later. The original recommended belay method positioned the device so that the slack end of the rope faced outward, much like a grigri. They later found that they got better results if they flip that around. It wasn't designed with that in mind, and the redesign appears to better accommodate that position.

This is very similar to what happened with the grigri vs. grigri2. The original belay method recommended and used was later scrapped for a different one, requiring you to hold the device a bit differently. The grigri2 was designed to fit your hand better in the "new" configuration. They made the obvious decision to call it a grigri2, because that's what it is.

Speaking of belay methods and device configuration, that's another strong hint that this is really a Cinch 2. Check out the instructions for use (Cinch vs. Vergo). Same "backward" configuration, which isn't found on any other mainstream device. Same pinching to feed out slack on the hollow axle. Same pretty much everything.

Edit to add: Full disclosure, I have not personally seen, much less used, the Vergo. I am interwebs quarterbacking. My opinion on the cinch is elsewhere in this thread, so I won't repeat it here.
amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

An excellent review by Andrew Bisharat can be found here - Evening Sends Trango Vergo Review

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50
amarius wrote:An excellent review by Andrew Bisharat can be found here - Evening Sends Trango Vergo Review
Hmm...

Releasing the Cam

The most challenging maneuver to learn, at least for me, was releasing the cam once a hanging climber pulled onto the wall and started to climb.

The trick, which honestly took me a full day to really figure out, was to use the left hand to pull the rope down and to the left. Essentially, it is the same maneuver as feeding slack, with some subtle differences that I don’t really know if I can articulate (or if they even matter).

Once I got comfortable with that move, releasing the cam was no problem.


To release the cam just rotate the device clockwise around left hand holding tight rope. That's it. Very natural hand movement.

This review is a great illustration to my common "Should I by a Cinch?" answer: "Well, Cinch is great device, although with all that GriGri-everywhere culture it is just dangerous. Now days you give a GriGri to a stranger and have a (more or less) belay, you give a Cinch to a stranger and, after been short roped dozen times or so, deck."
Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50

I don't like I love that "excellent review".

That day I grabbed a new belay device and without any knowledge and experience with it gave a belay to my partner. Unfortunately despite all my efforts to short rope him hardly, my buddy survived.

:)

Billcoe · · Pacific Northwet · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 930

2 things, don't see anyone saying that they are a death machine:-) My preference is Grigri2. Or the 1 on a large rope. I like Cinches, but I like the Grigri better. Thats all. Cinches are pretty spiffy and if someone told me "I prefer the Cinch", I'm fine with that and I get belayed all the time by folks with them to this day. No problemo.

2nd, this is the big deal. The pins are made out of "harder than the hubs of hell" roll pins. They press in and out easily and you can do this yourself. INSTRUCTIONIES here: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/981038/Trango_Cinch_new_pin_replaceme

I'd bought this brand new. New in in old one out.

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50
Billcoe wrote:They press in and out easily and you can do this yourself.
Thanks!
Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90
Jake Jones wrote: My personal opinion, judging from past threads and reports is that there are just as many accidents if not more from a GriGri as from a Cinch, and I know people that absolutely refuse to be belayed by a Cinch, and that's fine.
The problem really is failure due to mis-use, vs failure due to part wear. I don't hear of any failures due to wear on grigri's (not that it doesn't happen, but if it does, it's definitely less publicized). So the question then becomes: how do I judge how much wear is too much wear? I think it's that unknown that scares people off. Plus it does requires some specific equipment, or rigging ingenuity to change the pin yourself.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Jake Jones wrote: My personal opinion, judging from past threads and reports is that there are just as many accidents if not more from a GriGri as from a Cinch, and I know people that absolutely refuse to be belayed by a Cinch, and that's fine.
The accident statistics from the DAV show your personal opinion is flawed. At least they worked out a solution and "told" Trango how to change the use so it is a bit safer.
Me? I´ve no desire to ever be belayed with a Cinch and I own 2 of the things.
Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110
Brian L. wrote: The problem really is failure due to mis-use, vs failure due to part wear. I don't hear of any failures due to wear on grigri's (not that it doesn't happen, but if it does, it's definitely less publicized). So the question then becomes: how do I judge how much wear is too much wear? I think it's that unknown that scares people off. Plus it does requires some specific equipment, or rigging ingenuity to change the pin yourself.
and there are fuck load more grigris out their than cinches
Daniel Provasnik · · Bonne Terre, MO · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 817
Jim Titt wrote: The accident statistics from the DAV show your personal opinion is flawed. At least they worked out a solution and "told" Trango how to change the use so it is a bit safer. Me? I´ve no desire to ever be belayed with a Cinch and I own 2 of the things.
I if you don't want them I'll take them off your hands for free :D
Raymond Moreno · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 140

So just to follow-up...I received my Trango Vergo Yesterday, Thursday.

My initial views of the Vergo are as follows.

1) It is small. I like that.

2) It pays-out my Mammut Infinity Protect 9.5mm rope pretty smoothly.

3) Glad the other poster showed that a worn pin can be punched-out and replaced if needed. But I'm assuming Trango corrected that (Case hardened pin?), and will call to verify that.

4) The only thing I did not initially like was the pin fastening the handle to the body of the device. (See attached picture with the pen pointing to the said pin). It seems to me (and I am no Phd of engineering), that with such a long handle, you would use a thicker pin to attach the handle, instead of the flimsy-looking 1/16" inch pin. Seems that if the rope catches the handle when lowering a climber, the pin might break, and the handle come off.

I'd initially suggest that they use a larger pin. If anything, for durability. I smidgen more weight, verses a sturdier piece of equipment. It's a no-brainer.

But the proof is in the pudding. And I guess time will tell if the pin is strong enough, and the torque of pulling the handle while lowering a climber stresses/breaks the pin, or angles the handle from a bent pin.

Overall, it is a sweet device.

More later, as last night was my one and only try of the device, and more time with the belay device is needed to give a fair review.

In Christ: Raymond

Trango Vergo (Front plate)

Trango Vergo (Rear of device)

Trango Vergo (The pin looks mighty flimsy for such a long handle, which will create good torque because of the leverage)

Trango Vergo (It DOES have a pin. But nice to know that if needed, with the Cinch, it could be punched-out and replaced). Curious if they replaced the pin on this newer Vergo with something case-hardened.

Sam Stephens · · PORTLAND, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,090

The fact that there's a warning on the inside of the device to inspect the pin for wear doesn't make me believe they replaced it with something harder. Time will tell, but for now I'll just keep replacing pins in my cinch

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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