Trango Vergo
|
THE concern is that response deflects, rather than answers, the question. They both work using a similar mechanism, they both do have a pin (you can see it). So the question is what changed to improve durability of the pin, and holding power once worn. Theremay in fact be changes, but people want to be assured Trango did indeed consider it in their design. |
|
I never said anything negative about the Vergo. |
|
"Hate" is a bit of a strong word. I am simply skeptical. I think that everyone should know that the Vergo looks extremely similar in operation to the Cinch, and that the Cinch had problems before they go and spend their hard earned cash on the Vergo. |
|
my lefty friend loves his cinch. |
|
I got a smoking deal on a Vergo, and just got an email this morning (Tuesday, Sept 27th), that it has been shipped to me. |
|
I love my Cinch. And I'm sure I'll like the Vergo. |
|
Hoping a local KC climber will share theirs soon. |
|
I got to look at and feel out the vergo in the local gear shop yesterday and, while I haven't used a cinch very extensively, it looks and feels pretty similar, although it seemed a little bit smaller and a bit heavier. I'm not sure whether or not they addressed the issues with the pin wear. |
|
amarius wrote:Of course, it is possible that the Trango Vergo is Cinch 1 with exactly same parts but different color scheme, but how can one make that logical connection from Trango rep's email?I can conclude that this is more accurately called a Cinch 2, rather than a truly new device, because we can see the internals. The two devices share the same unique mechanism and structure. The body shape has changed changed a bit, but the fundamentals are the same, and are not shared with any other belay device on the market that I know of. See below: Cinch vs. vergo. Sources: Top left: MEC.ca. Top right: Trango.com. Bottom left: eskalartienda.com. Bottom right: splitterchoss.com. Cinch on the left, vergo on the right. It's clearly the same basic design. The channel the rope runs through has roughly the same dimensions, the plates swinging around the same hollow central axle, the position of the attachment point, the pin, etc. Of course, the redesign is welcome given the changes to the way the device was originally designed to be used vs. what Trango discovered later. The original recommended belay method positioned the device so that the slack end of the rope faced outward, much like a grigri. They later found that they got better results if they flip that around. It wasn't designed with that in mind, and the redesign appears to better accommodate that position. This is very similar to what happened with the grigri vs. grigri2. The original belay method recommended and used was later scrapped for a different one, requiring you to hold the device a bit differently. The grigri2 was designed to fit your hand better in the "new" configuration. They made the obvious decision to call it a grigri2, because that's what it is. Speaking of belay methods and device configuration, that's another strong hint that this is really a Cinch 2. Check out the instructions for use (Cinch vs. Vergo). Same "backward" configuration, which isn't found on any other mainstream device. Same pinching to feed out slack on the hollow axle. Same pretty much everything. Edit to add: Full disclosure, I have not personally seen, much less used, the Vergo. I am interwebs quarterbacking. My opinion on the cinch is elsewhere in this thread, so I won't repeat it here. |
|
An excellent review by Andrew Bisharat can be found here - Evening Sends Trango Vergo Review |
|
amarius wrote:An excellent review by Andrew Bisharat can be found here - Evening Sends Trango Vergo ReviewHmm... Releasing the Cam The most challenging maneuver to learn, at least for me, was releasing the cam once a hanging climber pulled onto the wall and started to climb. The trick, which honestly took me a full day to really figure out, was to use the left hand to pull the rope down and to the left. Essentially, it is the same maneuver as feeding slack, with some subtle differences that I don’t really know if I can articulate (or if they even matter). Once I got comfortable with that move, releasing the cam was no problem. To release the cam just rotate the device clockwise around left hand holding tight rope. That's it. Very natural hand movement. This review is a great illustration to my common "Should I by a Cinch?" answer: "Well, Cinch is great device, although with all that GriGri-everywhere culture it is just dangerous. Now days you give a GriGri to a stranger and have a (more or less) belay, you give a Cinch to a stranger and, after been short roped dozen times or so, deck." |
|
I don't like I love that "excellent review". |
|
2 things, don't see anyone saying that they are a death machine:-) My preference is Grigri2. Or the 1 on a large rope. I like Cinches, but I like the Grigri better. Thats all. Cinches are pretty spiffy and if someone told me "I prefer the Cinch", I'm fine with that and I get belayed all the time by folks with them to this day. No problemo. |
|
Billcoe wrote:They press in and out easily and you can do this yourself.Thanks! |
|
Jake Jones wrote: My personal opinion, judging from past threads and reports is that there are just as many accidents if not more from a GriGri as from a Cinch, and I know people that absolutely refuse to be belayed by a Cinch, and that's fine.The problem really is failure due to mis-use, vs failure due to part wear. I don't hear of any failures due to wear on grigri's (not that it doesn't happen, but if it does, it's definitely less publicized). So the question then becomes: how do I judge how much wear is too much wear? I think it's that unknown that scares people off. Plus it does requires some specific equipment, or rigging ingenuity to change the pin yourself. |
|
Jake Jones wrote: My personal opinion, judging from past threads and reports is that there are just as many accidents if not more from a GriGri as from a Cinch, and I know people that absolutely refuse to be belayed by a Cinch, and that's fine.The accident statistics from the DAV show your personal opinion is flawed. At least they worked out a solution and "told" Trango how to change the use so it is a bit safer. Me? I´ve no desire to ever be belayed with a Cinch and I own 2 of the things. |
|
Brian L. wrote: The problem really is failure due to mis-use, vs failure due to part wear. I don't hear of any failures due to wear on grigri's (not that it doesn't happen, but if it does, it's definitely less publicized). So the question then becomes: how do I judge how much wear is too much wear? I think it's that unknown that scares people off. Plus it does requires some specific equipment, or rigging ingenuity to change the pin yourself.and there are fuck load more grigris out their than cinches |
|
Jim Titt wrote: The accident statistics from the DAV show your personal opinion is flawed. At least they worked out a solution and "told" Trango how to change the use so it is a bit safer. Me? I´ve no desire to ever be belayed with a Cinch and I own 2 of the things.I if you don't want them I'll take them off your hands for free :D |
|
So just to follow-up...I received my Trango Vergo Yesterday, Thursday. |
|
The fact that there's a warning on the inside of the device to inspect the pin for wear doesn't make me believe they replaced it with something harder. Time will tell, but for now I'll just keep replacing pins in my cinch |