The Jay Knower guidebook appreciation thread.....

Also, I swear double overhang was a 5.5! The only route in the guide that Jay downgraded.

Always been a 5.4 as far as I know, albeit a sandbag depending on how you finish it. I think he did downgrade Breakfast of Champions (dear god, why?) to a straight 5.9 rather than 5.9+, though.

just trying to make myself feel better...

And now to the bashing....no info on Castle Rock?!

jon jugenheimer wrote:Also, I swear double overhang was a 5.5! The only route in the guide that Jay downgraded.

Agree...I'm sure I had 'bagged' my first hard 5.5 when I did that lead back in 70's via whatever guidebook I was using at the time...probably the old Hoofers' guide that I had a dim printed copy of a Xerox copy of another Xerox copy back then...I'll have to bring this strange item along to show what kind of guidebook, (or lack there of) that we had to put up with back then. But then again,, were those old guide ratings in the 'F' system,,such as an F5...therefore questionable as to if that was in a range of 5.4- to 5.5+ ',,,,,,,oh how picky they got back then about our ratings..,,when 5.10 did not exist,,,just tons of F9++++ routes.! Not even an X or an R'.

I think Jay and others who have done guidebook work over the years should hold a discussion or short talk on Saturday night about what kind of idiocy they have to go through to sort out numbers when doing new editions of guidebooks. That would be funny, sad, and irritating to hear.

I think Everleigh Club Crack was downgraded to 5.6 as well, wouldn't expect a ton of argument there.

Not to Bash Jay, nor be bashed by Jon. I will make a selfish plug that the said guidebook is available at Wildside Action Sports in Baraboo. I might also add that the book is awesome. It is also selling very well.

Awesome book. thanks!

Brandon Seerup wrote:I think Everleigh Club Crack was downgraded to 5.6 as well, wouldn't expect a ton of argument there.

There goes my legacy.

What's the story, Leo (for those of us that don't know)?

PS: Personally, I think 5.6 is too far the other way. There's at least one 5.7 move on that route.

PPS: What's Coatimundi in Jay's guidebook?

Gokul wrote:What's the story, Leo (for those of us that don't know)? PS: Personally, I think 5.6 is too far the other way. There's at least one 5.7 move on that route. PPS: What's Coatimundi in Jay's guidebook?

IIRC we gave it 5.8 but we were hungover after a very long, enjoyable evening in The Everleigh Club in Lincoln Park. I defer to recent consensus on the grade- especially for one of the least important climbs at DL!

Jay/Wildside will be selling them at the AAC craggin classic so you can check it out and form your own incorrect opinion about the route ratings!

I know that routes at Stettners are not covered in the new book, but I'm just baffled how 'the Niche' climb over there has been rated at 5 or 6 at the most in guides. I've seen some pretty good climbers who can't figure out the start, let alone pull over onto that side ledge to finish it up. A serious 7 at the least I'd guess.. I think it's a fun route; have many others spent time on it for any feedback?

Huh. Weird that Stettner's isn't in there. Didn't notice that. I guess it's mostly a beginner's TR area...don't remember leading anything there.

Coatimundi is most definitely a 5.7 IMO. I think he did downgrade false alarm to a 5.6 which is fine because it was sort of ridiculous that it was graded higher than Coat, which is clearly a harder climb.

Edit: Jay ranked Coatimundi 5.6+. Fine.

Stettners is mentioned, map has it located, but no routes listed, no pics to show you the area. Historic for sure, and was really surprised to see it left out. I know, a lot of people think it's totally worthless to visit there, and plenty of beginner groups use it. I didn't look, but did the similar Guillotine area of east bluffs with simple climbs get left out too, or did it 'make the cut'.

Just got my copy in the mail.

Simply awesome.

Hats off to Jay and his team.

Picked up my copy at the Craggin Classic and got it signed by Jay :). Now that I have really looked through it I must say I love it! I like how it advertises a lot of lesser know routes that are supposed to be quite good. I'll be hopping on climbs I normally never would! Nice work Jay!!

On another note, Jay was hiking up on east bluff that Saturday and chose not to TR stool pigeon in the rain with us... what's up with that?!

Joel Allen wrote:Picked up my copy at the Craggin Classic and got it signed by Jay :). Now that I have really looked through it I must say I love it! I like how it advertises a lot of lesser know routes that are supposed to be quite good. I'll be hopping on climbs I normally never would! Nice work Jay!! On another note, Jay was hiking up on east bluff that Saturday and chose not to TR stool pigeon in the rain with us... what's up with that?!

As a new father and famous author, Jay no longer has to slum it with the masses. "PEASANTS! BRING ME MY SWILL!"

Received my copy of the new DL guide. I have to say......Rad! The first modern day guide book to the Lake. Very well done and inspiring to boot. Kudos to the author and the publisher . Surprised to see my sophomoric DLFA essay in there as well as some of my crappy old pictures from bitd. All of the other essays had something I could relate to , even Leo's foreword was quite intellectual....especially for dirtbag like me. Thanks Jay and everyone else who contributed.
P.S. Is there a reward for finding errors ? Now puke! Steve S.