Guide/Instructor Tipping
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I'm not one to hire guides but I have had two sessions with instructors in the past when I was starting out. Question is, what is the common tipping percentage YOU have paid to guides or instructors? |
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Here's a recent thread that discussed guide tipping in depth: |
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I hired a guide a couple of years ago, the day rate was $325, and I tipped $50. |
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I think it depends on the cost of the course. If I'm doing private guiding I usually tip 15%, as the underlying expense is greater since I'm going alone. If I'm with a group I usually tip 20% as my underlying expense is cheaper. |
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15-20% depending on the daily rate. |
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10-20% sounds reasonable depending on the quality of the experience, etc. I've only hired a guide once for a 2 day 2:1 private, but he was good and we were able to get through pretty much everything I wanted to do, so 20%. |
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good thread, i did not know tipping was to be considered with guides. i actually feel bad now i hired 3 guides this year. 1 last week for a 3 day private trad leading course. |
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I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm curious what you guys are hiring guides for. I've never hired a guide and I can't think of a reason why I would so I'm curious, maybe I'm missing out on a useful resource. |
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I have never hired a guide but have been tempted before. on the road alone and desperate to get up a tower or mountain that is too technicle for me to solo.. No shame in hireing a guide when on a vacation to exotic places if that is your income bracket. If not rich then try to find a partner through MP etc. Hire A guide to learn to climb various styles if you can not find a mentor... |
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Ryan Hamilton wrote:I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm curious what you guys are hiring guides for. I've never hired a guide and I can't think of a reason why I would so I'm curious, maybe I'm missing out on a useful resource.A guide is available whenever I want to climb out of town and don't have a partner. A guide will climb what I want (within reason) and when I want. A guide will lead climbs that I wouldn't lead. A guide will provide instruction and tips you may have never seen. Hope this helps. |
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Speaking as a guide, I'll echo the sentiments of FrankPS above and more. As a guide, I am psyched to climb what you are psyched to climb--your goals are mine. I'm also more than happy to teach any skills you'd like to learn through a cogent and well-considered curriculum adapted to the needs of you or your group and your learning style. |
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Hmm, wonder where all of this tipping for everything is coming from. Strange. |
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Tipping for guides (fishing, climbing, whatevs) has been occurring for decades. |
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Ryan Hamilton wrote:I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm curious what you guys are hiring guides for. I've never hired a guide and I can't think of a reason why I would so I'm curious, maybe I'm missing out on a useful resource.IMHO if you need a guide to move up a mountain, because you DONT have the skills to get up there, then you shouldn't be up there in the first place. Learn the needed skills first in a controlled environment, instead of having someone carry you up a hill. There are cases when a guide is needed for climbs, because like others have posted, you can't find someone to climb with, partner bails on you, you're not friendly enough, etc. Guides can serve as mentors as well and usually know the area pretty well where you are climbing, if you're an outsider or new to the area. I have never considered getting a guide, but I am in the path of becoming a guide. I know a few guides and I love the work they do and their impact they have on the climbing community. Now I have taken technical courses and tipped the facilitator/mentor/teacher/guide/whatever you want to call it - 10 and 20%. They were both knowledgeable and the course was more of a skills-check for me. On one occasion I did learn more stuff than what I had anticipated and the other it was just bland and nothing new, but nonetheless informative. |
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Okay, so we know what to tip a guide now. |
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Br3tt wrote: Derek, this ties into my message above, but is there a way to work with a guide outside of a typical guiding company? I would assume it's a win-win for guide and client, as the former can keep all the money and the latter wouldn't have to pay as much (due to the lack of company overhead). I know the AMGA has a "hire a guide" page, but are most guides contracted with a company (which presumably doesn't allow them to take their own, independent clients) or are there some that guide on their own?Although I'm not Derek and not a guide, I've been guided many times before. Guide companies are issued permits by the land managers allowing them to run their business (guiding) in specific areas. A guide can work outside of his normal permitted area by working as an employee for a company that has the permits for that specific area. As an employee, he won't keep all the money, but will be paid a percentage of what the client is charged. Some areas, such as Red Rock, issue a "guest permit," which allows a guide service 10-14 days (with specified dates) of unlimited guiding, so they don't have to work under another company. I believe there are some places, internationally, where an IFMGA guide can work without being an employee of anyone. Derek? |
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Paging WOW DILLIAMS |
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FrankPS wrote: Although I'm not Derek and not a guide, I've been guided many times before. Guide companies are issued permits by the land managers allowing them to run their business (guiding) in specific areas. A guide can work outside of his normal permitted area by working as an employee for a company that has the permits for that specific area. As an employee, he won't keep all the money, but will be paid a percentage of what the client is charged. Some areas, such as Red Rock, issue a "guest permit," which allows a guide service 10-14 days (with specified dates) of unlimited guiding, so they don't have to work under another company. I believe there are some places, internationally, where an IFMGA guide can work without being an employee of anyone. Derek?FrankPS, thank you for the detailed response. My question may not have been as clear as it should have been. Can I find a guide on the AMGA website and see if they'll guide me independently (i.e., as not a part of their company)? Obviously this would necessitate obtaining the permits ourselves, but at this point (assuming the guide isn't employed by a guiding company) isn't it just two people going climbing (one of whom happens to be a guide)? In this way the independent guide gets to keep more of his/her $, and I pay less (because he/she keeps everything I give them). Might be easier to put it like this. Say FrankPS is an AMGA licensed guide. In scenario 1 he's working for Exum Guides, but we're friends so he decided to guide me on his own. In this case I'd presume he's breaking his employment agreement and wouldn't be allowed. In scenario #2, FrankPS is not employed by a guiding company, but is AMGA licensed guide. Can I contact FrankPS privately via the AMGA website and have him guide (once again, a win-win)? |
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Br3tt wrote: Can I find a guide on the AMGA website and see if they'll guide me independently (i.e., as not a part of their company)? Obviously this would necessitate obtaining the permits ourselves, but at this point (assuming the guide isn't employed by a guiding company) isn't it just two people going climbing (one of whom happens to be a guide)?It isn't just two people going climbing if money is exchanging hands. I can't imagine an employed guide wanting to save some stranger a couple of bucks so they can keep a bit more. Not only would it likely put their job at risk with the company, but they would have to assume the liability. |
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Br3tt wrote: FrankPS, thank you for the detailed response. My question may not have been as clear as it should have been. Can I find a guide on the AMGA website and see if they'll guide me independently (i.e., as not a part of their company)? Obviously this would necessitate obtaining the permits ourselves, but at this point (assuming the guide isn't employed by a guiding company) isn't it just two people going climbing (one of whom happens to be a guide)? In this way the independent guide gets to keep more of his/her $, and I pay less (because he/she keeps everything I give them). Might be easier to put it like this. Say FrankPS is an AMGA licensed guide. In scenario 1 he's working for Exum Guides, but we're friends so he decided to guide me on his own. In this case I'd presume he's breaking his employment agreement and wouldn't be allowed. In scenario #2, FrankPS is not employed by a guiding company, but is AMGA licensed guide. Can I contact FrankPS privately via the AMGA website and have him guide (once again, a win-win)?Neither scenario works. The guide is not going to get a permit just for one trip. It costs money, he has to submit documentation showing his certs and liability insurance, and it's just not worth it. It's much more involved than just walking up to the ranger station to get a wilderness permit for backpacking. It's not so much about his "employment agreement," but the overall risk to his future in the guiding business. If the guide is willing to risk being banned from any future permits, he might guide you "privately." (aka illegally) If an accident were to occur, and the investigation revealed your guide was unpermitted, he would be in deep doo-doo. If you two were truly friends and he didn't charge you, you can climb together. Just like you can climb with anyone else. Edit: Regarding permits, my limited knowledge says they are issued for a one-year period, not specific trips. |
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Types of climbers guides deal with. |