Hand Placed Beaks

Anyone have experience hand placing beaks? I was told it's a way to move faster on thin seams when speed climbing. I've heard of them used to protect free climbing thin seams as well. I'm more interested in this, but vow to never carry a hammer. Is it likely to damage the rock if it's just hand placed and set like you would set a nut?

I'm somewhat curious how much you can trust falling on one, but the alternative is to run it out with a possible ground fall. Seems like better to have a beak than nothing.

Rock in question is granite, in the alpine.

I've nailed a few of them in the alpine and they are a total bitch to clean. hand placed is the way to go, and they can be really bomber. I carry them in the mountains occasionally, depending on the route. I'm not sure I would carry one on an alpine rock route, unless I knew it had a hard unprotectable seam.

Love beaks, they're usually my go to when nothing else works on thin stuff. Hand placing is fine and I doubt damages the rock in any way. Took a fall on a large one on the Leaning Tower, held up just fine!

Matt Carroll wrote:I've nailed a few of them in the alpine and they are a total bitch to clean. hand placed is the way to go, and they can be really bomber. I carry them in the mountains occasionally, depending on the route. I'm not sure I would carry one on an alpine rock route, unless I knew it had a hard unprotectable seam.

That sounds like premium territory for the beak! I mean it's better then nothing, and if the placements are right I bet it's totally bomber. Goodluck with the route!

Consider, if you haven't already, whether an RP or Ballnut may fit as both would probably be easier than hand placing a beak. Crack'N'ups may also be worth looking into. Better than nothing.

I've placed quite a few beaks and they are bomber. If you are using the BD beaks don't clip the cable because they are only rated to 3kn clip a draw to the eye and then they are full strength. If its the only thing keeping you off the ground I would hit it a couple times. Beaks damage the rock less than any other pin and as long as you don't overdrive it they aren't that hard to clean. I have only hand placed them on aid routes and they are generally good if there is any kind of constriction

my 2 cents

When hand placing, I find the larger sizes to be much more useful. I also prefer hand placed Tomahawks over Peckers any day! If you are unable to get the smaller sizes to stick, make your best placement by hand then give it a few taps with the hammer. Most of the time these things are bomber with just a light amount of force.

Bwaaahaha!
(A few taps with the hammer) Is NOT a hand placed beak. Nor does that fall into clean climbing.

Sometimes you've gotta use the hammer on your pitons ;)

Crack 'N Ups setup for free climbing...

Thanks everyone. I found the hand placement sufficient for pro on the route I was working. I also had my first hand placed beak for direct aid on RNWF HD a few days ago

Beware of leaving crank n ups and other cam hooks for pro. For kicks I climbed the first pitch of zenyatta mendotta hammerless this summer with a beak, a cam hook and a crack n up. I leap froged the three through most of the pitch until I got way run out and left the crack n up for pro I leap  froged the beak and the cam hook one more time but then the cam hooked popped ( it was a desperate placement) and I took a ten footer on to the crack n up, it held but it bent the crank n up at a forty five degree angle. Also leaving cam hooks for pro sucks to clean if your partner taps them in a little with a hammer. My buddy last month on tribal rite tapped in a fragile flake cam hook and it took me forever to get out. I made him sware he would only use arrows in slots like that again 

Healyje wrote: Crack 'N Ups setup for free climbing...  I also might go with the Tomahawks these days but would probably rewire them from the way Theron has them for aid.

Hahaha figures Joe would have some of those around. :)

Beaks were originally Crack 'N Ups that Bridwell cut into pins giving the short side to hammer on and the Bird Beak was invented (I am betting Joe knows this already).

So the original gear they were made from were all hand placed and with a little bend to them they cammed a little like a cam hook when weighted.

ps Joe, you got any Hatchet Rurps? :)

King Tut wrote:

 Hatchet Rurps

Is that the same as a beaked rurp? Never heard that term before, but I can imagine grinding one down to a hatchet shape. 

Also, for Joe Healy, how would you prefer to set up Tomahawks for free climbing re: your earlier post? I've only used them for aid, but I quite like the cable they come with, much much better than BD Peckers. Just curious what you'd change.

Jonathan Croom wrote:

Is that the same as a beaked rurp? Never heard that term before, but I can imagine grinding one down to a hatchet shape. 

Also, for Joe Healy, how would you prefer to set up Tomahawks for free climbing re: your earlier post? I've only used them for aid, but I quite like the cable they come with, much much better than BD Peckers. Just curious what you'd change.

Beaked rurps are pointy, hatchet rurps have a little flat "hatchet" shape by taking off say, 2/3 of the blade....I think they both were pretty rare but they led to Beaks in conjunction with the Crack 'N Up (ie more narrow blade than a rurp plus camming action)...heading eventually took over most of that really thin stuff that hatchet rurps were for...Beaks and such need actual cracks mostly.

Eli wrote:

I fell on a hand placed beak and came within 6" of the ground this past season.
I'm sure they can be bomber, but I would recommend a ballnut, or something hammered. 

I fell on a piece that kept me from hitting the ground.

but a piece doing its job isn't enough to keep me from suggesting that you use different pieces.

FIFY

Eli wrote:

I fell on a hand placed beak and came within 6" of the ground this past season.
I'm sure they can be bomber, but I would recommend a ballnut, or something hammered. 

Everyone has got to make their own choices about using a hammer or not.

I took falls on The Prow more than 30 years ago hand placing angles in scars to avoid using a hammer in the blown out crack.

Depends on whether you got the nuts (figuratively) to climb clean. Its probably good training if you have higher aspirations on harder routes.

I also did my best to beat pins into cracks on other routes long before they ever went hammer-less so I don't think anyone is pure if they used a hammer before. 

kevin deweese wrote:

I fell on a piece that kept me from hitting the ground.

but a piece doing its job isn't enough to keep me from suggesting that you use different pieces.

FIFY

I failed to write that it ripped, which is why I came so close to the ground. They're pretty finicky when you're placing them free climbing, which is why I'd recommend almost anything else.
I'll fix my original post.

Bottom line is that any kind of small protection requires close inspection and solid placement skills to even bother with them and doubly so if a placement is at all marginal. Do that while free climbing anything difficult and it gets seriously challenging particularly if you're talking about a running it out over a string of small and / or marginal placements.