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Destinations for widely differing climbing abilties - US or International

JK- Branin · · NYC-ish · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 56

Looks like you've decided for your next trip...

But for future reference I recommend Red Rock outside Vegas, and the tons of climbing in Southern Utah. Prophesy Wall and Black Rock being some favorites.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35
JK- wrote:Looks like you've decided for your next trip... But for future reference I recommend Red Rock outside Vegas, and the tons of climbing in Southern Utah. Prophesy Wall and Black Rock being some favorites.
The OP definitely mentioned Red Rocks, he's been there too much.

JCM, you seem to have ignored my post about making her a better climber. When I was climbing at your levels, I started dating a girl who had never climbed. She wanted to try. She was fit, yoga and tennis mostly. I took her climbing every chance I could, which ended up being a few days per week plus a few trips. The entire time I didn't let on about how hard I was trying. I basically made her think that I wasn't working hard until mid 12 and the holds on the 13's were big, just a little tricky or steep.

In essence, I gave her an entirely different baseline of what "most climbers" can do. Within 6 months she was leading 11's. The relationship is long over but I've heard through the grapevine that the upward progress continues. Contrast that to my own learning curve where I believed that once I could do 5.9 that I was pretty much complete. Had I not stumbled onto a group of far better and far more motivated friends, that may have never changed.

Sorry to Bearbreeder you by directly not answering your question then throwing in a personal story relating directly to my not answering your question. I just think that if you're serious about this lady, you should work toward turning her into a partner, not just the hottie you guide around.

BTW, the easy routes in Tonsai are so polished. Like the handrails at Disneyland polished. I can't imagine having any fun climbing there below mid 11 (of course after the climbing, you're still on a beach so it's cool).
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
caughtinside wrote:Was there much under 5.10 at Kalymnos? .....
Loads.

JCM, if you are thinking overseas and happy with single pitch sport then I would go for Kalymnos.

It is utterly brilliant in the lower grades (and the higher ones). One of the main reasons is that the routes are so steep, this means it is ok to fall on the easy stuff (6a and upwards). There are very few venues where this is true, and means those operating below 7a don't really get to experience what sport really is - safe.

There is a good guide book too and some easy bolted multi pitch. You will both meet others at your respective grades to climb with so you can split for a few hours too. The grades are also overestimated rather than under, so she will be climbing 6a and up.

I have climbed at most of the standard Euro bolted spots, and in Thailand, and for what you seem to be after Kalymnos would be the best option (IMHO).
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
David Coley wrote: Loads. JCM, if you are thinking overseas and happy with single pitch sport then I would go for Kalymnos. It is utterly brilliant in the lower grades (and the higher ones). One of the main reasons is that the routes are so steep, this means it is ok to fall on the easy stuff (6a and upwards). There are very few venues where this is true, and means those operating below 7a don't really get to experience what sport really is - safe. There is a good guide book too and some easy bolted multi pitch. You will both meet others at your respective grades to climb with so you can split for a few hours too. The grades are also overestimated rather than under, so she will be climbing 6a and up. I have climbed at most of the standard Euro bolted spots, and in Thailand, and for what you seem to be after Kalymnos would be the best option (IMHO).
Thanks. Kalymnos sounds absolutely fantastic. It's been at the top of the list for me personally for a while (I love steep endurance climbing), and with this info it sounds like it would be great for both of us. I hope to make a trip there in the next few years. The main reason I haven't been yet is that airfare from Seattle to Greece is usually outrageously expensive. Will need to keep an eye out for sales.
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: The OP definitely mentioned Red Rocks, he's been there too much. JCM, you seem to have ignored my post about making her a better climber. When I was climbing at your levels, I started dating a girl who had never climbed. She wanted to try. She was fit, yoga and tennis mostly. I took her climbing every chance I could, which ended up being a few days per week plus a few trips. The entire time I didn't let on about how hard I was trying. I basically made her think that I wasn't working hard until mid 12 and the holds on the 13's were big, just a little tricky or steep. In essence, I gave her an entirely different baseline of what "most climbers" can do. Within 6 months she was leading 11's. The relationship is long over but I've heard through the grapevine that the upward progress continues. Contrast that to my own learning curve where I believed that once I could do 5.9 that I was pretty much complete. Had I not stumbled onto a group of far better and far more motivated friends, that may have never changed. Sorry to Bearbreeder you by directly not answering your question then throwing in a personal story relating directly to my not answering your question. I just think that if you're serious about this lady, you should work toward turning her into a partner, not just the hottie you guide around. BTW, the easy routes in Tonsai are so polished. Like the handrails at Disneyland polished. I can't imagine having any fun climbing there below mid 11 (of course after the climbing, you're still on a beach so it's cool).
I was sorta thinking the same thing by suggesting Hells Canyon. Not knowing The Grade can sometimes let you surprise yourself.
David Gibbs · · Ottawa, ON · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2
JCM wrote:Thanks for the suggestions everyone. We were browsing plane tickets last night to get a sense of airfares, and saw a shockingly good deal on tickets to Monterrey. We pulled the trigger and bought them on the spot. Going to EPC! 2 weeks in February. I've been there before and have the guidebook, but of course am open to suggestions for favorite routes in the 5.7 to (soft) 5.10 range.
Estrellita is probably the classic of classics at that grade range. There are a couple of 5.11 variations (which may cause it to be so-listed in the guidebooks), but it is mostly climbed in the easy variations, and is classic in those variations.

Yankee Clipper.

Shorter, but still good:
Las Chimuelas (3 pitches)
Jungle Mountaineering (has been rebolted since Dane's and Ed's guides published.) (4 pitches)
Kelso's Way (3 pitches)
Cactus Pile (3 pitches)
Yogi Unchained (4 pitches)
Satori (5 pitches) - might be edging on too hard.

Maybe Libertad -- but it may be too easy. I've seen it graded 5.7, but more like 5.6-; two pitches, ends on a nice pillar, though. Good confidence booster for leading multipitch if new to it.

Single Pitch (occasionally 2 pitches):
Several good ones on the left end of the Mota wall.
Cat Wall in Virgin Canyon
Wonder Wall
Central Scrutinizer
Los Lobos canyon - main wall. Zombie Wolf and others.
Patrick M · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 10

New River Gorge and the surrounding states (all within a days drive)

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
David Gibbs wrote: Estrellita is probably the classic of classics at that grade range. There are a couple of 5.11 variations (which may cause it to be so-listed in the guidebooks), but it is mostly climbed in the easy variations, and is classic in those variations. Yankee Clipper. Shorter, but still good: Las Chimuelas (3 pitches) Jungle Mountaineering (has been rebolted since Dane's and Ed's guides published.) (4 pitches) Kelso's Way (3 pitches) Cactus Pile (3 pitches) Yogi Unchained (4 pitches) Satori (5 pitches) - might be edging on too hard. Maybe Libertad -- but it may be too easy. I've seen it graded 5.7, but more like 5.6-; two pitches, ends on a nice pillar, though. Good confidence booster for leading multipitch if new to it. Single Pitch (occasionally 2 pitches): Several good ones on the left end of the Mota wall. Cat Wall in Virgin Canyon Wonder Wall Central Scrutinizer Los Lobos canyon - main wall. Zombie Wolf and others.
Sweet. Good list. We've already been eyeing Estrellita; with the variations it looks reasonable. Could be a good end of trip goal.
Steven Groetken · · Durango, CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 390

Seconded for Southern Arizona. I've never climbed homestead, but learned to climb at Lemmon and had an awesome time at Beanfest in Cochise last year, which is something to consider since they have one in fall and spring. Lemmon is ideal for a plethora of climbing at all grades and temperatures. A highway runs from the base which is desert, all the way to the top (~7000 ft elevation difference) which is evergreen forest. Climbs are all along the road for its entirety, some ridiculously short approaches, some long and secluded.

I also just got back from a trip to Slovenia and the climbing was pretty sweet. All limestone sport with varied grades. Would be nice in mid to late spring but snowy in winter.

David Gibbs · · Ottawa, ON · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2
JCM wrote: Sweet. Good list. We've already been eyeing Estrellita; with the variations it looks reasonable. Could be a good end of trip goal.
For Estrellita, are you worried about the difficulty, or the amount of climbing?

Most EPC multi-pitch climbs are descended by rappelling the route, but Estrellita actually rappels off the back-side of the ridge it ascends, so after a certain point (around pitch 4 or 5), you really should finish the climb. So, it is more committing than many of the others. So, if length is the issue -- yeah, this would be a good end-of-trip goal.

As for difficulty, if you stick to the "normal" variations on the climb, the hardest pitch is 10b. But, that pitch is only 10b if you climb directly up the bolt line -- if you're willing to climb 2-3m right of the bolt line, it goes at about 5.7 to 5.8 (on fairly obvious jugs). Hardest is really around 5.9 for the whole route. So, if you're worried about difficulty, Estrellita is much softer than it appears.
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115

Main concern on something like Estrellita would be the endurance factor- getting fatigued after 10+ pitches of climbing. So we'd probably want to do a number of routes with easy rappel retreats first.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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