still nailing?

hey i was just wondering since i am just breaking into the aid climbing scene, how often do people still nail pitons in? is it not common practice anymore?

patrick donahue wrote:hey i was just wondering since i am just breaking into the aid climbing scene, how often do people still nail pitons in? is it not common practice anymore?

People do still nail, it is a common practice. Just not on the classic trade routes. Lines like the Nose and the like are easy enough to do without nailing, so there is little point. The invention of offset cams and nuts really increased the bar on how hard you can climb using clean gear. But if you get on any of the more serious lines on the east side of El Cap, you will see people nailing.

I went on a piton binge and got a bunch awhile back. For a beginning aid climber like myself they were fun to practice with on shitty rock where no one else will ever see the scars.

Other than that they are useless to me. I recently purchased a set of DMM Offset Nuts and DMM Peenuts. They are incredibly useful and I would recommend buying offset nuts and cams before buying a single piton. Offset nuts and cams are alot more useful and should be your first investment when expanding your rack for aid.

For example: I just aided "The Pirate" on Suicide Rock on Saturday. I used all my small DMM Peenuts and all my small HB Brass Offsets. My 00 Metolius cam couldn't fit 95% of the placements on the climb because it was too big. I did use the two smallest offset master cams 00/0 and 0/1.

mountainproject.com/v/the-p…

Nailing today primarily tends to use peckers/birdbeaks/tomahawks. In general, rurps and blades have been replaced by these.
Angle placements have been overtaken by offset cam placements and very seldom will you place an angle piton unless you're hand-placing.
Lost arrows may still be used from time to time, but more often than not, unless it's a flared placement, camhooks can be used where lost arrows will fit.
Beyond that, nailing also contains placing copperheads though most routes you'll find yourself on during the first few years of aiding will have all the head fixed and you'll place very few if any.

- - -

But the game is all about climbing clean. You only place pitons and heads when you have NO OTHER OPTION. If you get into aid with any other mindset, stop, turn around, come back later when the rock matters more than getting to the top easily.

kevin deweese wrote: - - - But the game is all about climbing clean. You only place pitons and heads when you have NO OTHER OPTION. If you get into aid with any other mindset, stop, turn around, come back later when the rock matters more than getting to the top easily.

it is not all about clean climbing....what your saying is i should wait to do Miur Wall or The Shield until i am comfortable at C4? ...swing away little buddy!

once i told a good friend (who is a badass aid climber) how much i loved hand placing peckers because they were so bomber...his response?
"wow thats great to hear! Did you know that they are even better when you hammer them?"

if its C2+ or harder i carry a hammer, because i have come across some horrorshow "C2F" in my travels...fixed gear pulls and breaks all the time

of course i am all for clean climbing, just not getting maimed/disabled/vegetablized

YER GONNA DIE

Aid ratings are based on safety. If you want to ascend higher numbers, it gets dangerous. Accept that before you start and leave the hammer at home. Dont scar up the rock to make C2 feel like A1. Develop your talent (physical and mental) rather than bringing the route down.

A pin will go in if you bring it with you, because aid is scary, especially a long string of hook placements and micro nuts. Why wouldn't you want to have comfort at the cost of permanent damage? Easy to justify every time, if you carry weakness on your rack. If others go clean, so should you, or you're not ready.

Stiles wrote:If others go clean, so should you, or you're not ready.

Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion man.

If you leave the Hammer and pins at the belay, you are more likely to follow a clean style as you are forced to try out every other option before tagging up the iron.

People don't pound in pins neither as much as they use to and many of the most popular aid lines in Yosemite and Zion don't require anything more than a hand placed beak.

Less and less over the years with all the great gear coming out. Listen to the people (and posts above) about using all tools nessasary to climb with a clean mind and pull out the hammer when only nessasary.. Save you pins for nailing routes/pitches. Don't be nailing up anything unless it is required. If your not ready for a higher grade don't start up it.. work your way into aid/walling slowly, learn the tricks and what works before you get in over your head and damage routes or pitches. Now go get after it. And have fun. Think Clean! And be safe!

ParkerKempf wrote: it is not all about clean climbing....what your saying is i should wait to do Miur Wall or The Shield until i am comfortable at C4?

Maybe.

I'm no aid climber. Still, the same kind of arguments regularly play out over whether to add bolts to an existing route ...

One of the 12 steps to climbing sainthood is "There will always be routes of which I am not worthy to try."

And another: "Sometimes I misjudge my level of skill and desire, and so need to bail this time."

Edit to add: Missed that 20 kN. Strong work, Stiles.

This thread is from 2012. I think the OP is long gone.

I heard Patrick Donahue did the first clean ascent of the Streaked Wall recently!

Stiles. There has been alot of b.s / facetious comments latly. You serious?
Tale goes clean except the pecker pitch. Did it really go? !!

Negative on the gnarly cleanliness in Zion there Kauait; full on malicious Bull Shit. I don't think the OP is up for that challenge, or anyone else, for that matter.

Sorry Stiles, are you saying climbers shouldn't try there best to not nail and leave as minimal impact as possible? I'm kinda confused on your response. (Nothing negative intended) just confused.

I think all climbers visiting the park should not nail unless absolutly nessasary.
It's such a sensitive place. It's amazing how fast the routes can change do to climbers impact. Definetly by bad choices and nailing because they overshoot there ability or don't have the correct rack. Think of others and the future of the climbing in the park. My 2 cents.

I am in full agreeance with you, most especially on sandstone. Nailing is bad for the rock, period, and aught not be done. I quite enjoy it, but you have to have a very early repeat of an incipient seam to really require pounding iron.

Constructive scarring is a skill that should receive more attention in the aid community.

Sure. In some areas this is the only protection available.

E.g., in Kyrgystan many routes require lot of RURPs/Tomahawks (we call 'em Anchor Pitons - word-to-word accurate translation of Russian "якорные крючья"). Now days standard for a bit wider cracks is SAP or Byak - krukonogi.com/en/side-ancho… (the latter is a wordplay - "byak" sounds as a non-existing Russian word meaning "hasband of something very ugly" and as an English word "beak" pronounced with heavy accent).