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Calgary man dies after a 22-metre ground fall at Heart Creek

Dylan Pike · · Knoxville, TN · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 488

A tragic accident probably resulting from poor communication. Check your knots and talk to your partners.

Also this:

Tradgic Yogurt wrote:The AAC has a recommendation. It covers some single-pitch routes some of the time. Their method assumes a developer installed rap rings (or chain links big enough to fit a bight of rope through), but this certainly is not standard even to the crags just outside their front door (CCC, BoCan, etc).
Nick · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 5
eric schweitzer wrote:People who insist on rapping instead of just being lowered set the stage for these kind of accidents. That is the way that I see it anyway.
I was actually going to say the opposite. I rarely see people getting lowered and when they do most climbers will complain that they're wearing down the anchors for no good reason. I've always rapp'd no matter what and have never had an issue.
mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
eric schweitzer wrote:The american alpine club has an official reccomendation as to what standard procedure should be for getting off one pitch climbs. It directly addresses accidents of this sort. An interesting read! americanalpineclub.org/reso…
This article states that being lowered reduces the amount of possibly confusing communication with your belayer, yet it seems to me that there is still a lot of communication going on between climber and belayer. Asking for slack to feed the bite, ok take I'm in, ok ready to lower etc. etc... Even when lowering the climber is forced to double check their own system before being lowered, just like when rappelling. I guess that's why I don't understand this lower vs. rappel debate.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

easy and safer to feed slack and NOT actually take them off belay... so much safer than rappelling.

Carly D · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

Over the years, I have changed my ways of cleaning and sometimes I rappel and sometimes I don't. But the one thing I always, always, always do is I fully weight the rope while still being connected to the anchor through a PAS or sling just before rappeling or being lowered. We can debate all day about the "correct" way to clean, but even if you somehow skrew up cleaning or communicating, this last step is one way to help right any wrongs made along the way (though still nothing is foolproof, I am sure it can't right every wrong).

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
Morgan Patterson wrote:so much safer than rappelling.
A blanket statement with no qualifications doesn't show much depth...

There are plenty of times when rappelling single pitch routes make more sense. Personally I find myself rappelling much much more, but it is true that my local area has the descents bolted for rappels not lowering.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
patto wrote:Personally I find myself rappelling much much more, but it is true that my local area has the descents bolted for rappels not lowering.
This. You simply cannot "always lower" off of all sport routes.
Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 635
Marc801 wrote: This. You simply cannot "always lower" off of all sport routes.
Other than routes that are longer than one half of your rope length, what would be other examples of sport routes that you can't lower off of? I honestly can't say the last time I have seen an anchor on a sport route that necessitated lowering.
Dylan Pike · · Knoxville, TN · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 488
Pnelson wrote: Other than routes that are longer than one half of your rope length, what would be other examples of sport routes that you can't lower off of? I honestly can't say the last time I have seen an anchor on a sport route that necessitated lowering.
I keep finding metolius rap bolts at maple canyon...a bastion of sport climbing.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Dylan Pike wrote: I keep finding metolius rap bolts at maple canyon...a bastion of sport climbing.
And there are a lot of those anchors in the Uintas as well.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Pnelson wrote: Other than routes that are longer than one half of your rope length, what would be other examples of sport routes that you can't lower off of? I honestly can't say the last time I have seen an anchor on a sport route that necessitated lowering.
I think you meant rappelling. Routes where there are Metolius Rap hangers with no chains.
Dylan Pike · · Knoxville, TN · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 488
Marc801 wrote: And there are a lot of those anchors in the Uintas as well.
Yep. I like to lower, but not off those.
Johnny Kipp · · St Albert Alberta · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 105

One second of complacency...

Rest in Peace.

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 635
Marc801 wrote: I think you meant rappelling. Routes where there are Metolius Rap hangers with no chains.
Oh yeah, I meant "rappelling."

But Metolius rap hangers do not necessitate rapping. From their site: "Rap Hangers allow the rope to be threaded directly through the anchor for Bold Textlowering or rappellingBold Text."

metoliusclimbing.com/bolt_h…

backcountrygear.com/metoliu…
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Pnelson wrote: Oh yeah, I meant "rappelling." But Metolius rap hangers do not necessitate rapping. From their site: "Rap Hangers allow the rope to be threaded directly through the anchor for Bold Textlowering or rappellingBold Text." metoliusclimbing.com/bolt_h… backcountrygear.com/metoliu…
Sure, if you want to beat the crap out of your rope. Those things are horrible.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
M Sprague wrote: Sure, if you want to beat the crap out of your rope. Those things are horrible.
What he said.
Sure, *you* can lower off through them, but only with *your* rope, not mine!
Eric and Lucie · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 140
Carly D wrote:...the one thing I always, always, always do is I fully weight the rope while still being connected to the anchor through a PAS or sling just before rappeling or being lowered...
^^^ Rappel or lower, but do this!
baldclimber · · Ottawa, Ontario, Canada · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 6
Carly D wrote:the one thing I always, always, always do is I fully weight the rope while still being connected to the anchor through a PAS or sling just before rappeling or being lowered.
+1
jason.cre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 10
Morgan Patterson wrote:easy and safer to feed slack and NOT actually take them off belay... so much safer than rappelling.
I cant really foresee any situation where a backed up rappel wouldnt be safer than lowering. Lowering is inherently more dangerous because it lacks redundancy, and theres a great chance of something falling on your belayer that yourself when lowering.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
jason.cre wrote: I cant really foresee any situation where a backed up rappel wouldnt be safer than lowering. Lowering is inherently more dangerous because it lacks redundancy, and theres a great chance of something falling on your belayer that yourself when lowering.
There have been tons of threads on this, so no real need to rehash it all yet again in this thread. A forum search will reveal much. A short synopsis is:

  • one is not inherently safer than the other; there have been serious accidents from both
  • the bigger problem is lack of communication between belayer and leader about what the leader will do at the anchors; this is compounded if there is switching between rappelling and lowering
  • some people advocate always doing one to eliminate the potential uncertainty
  • local ethics sometimes force the issue one way or another
  • rappelling is often significantly less safe than lowering once you're into the realm of overhanging sport routes; it may also be impossible to retrieve your draws on many routes if you rappel
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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