New belay devices 2017 (Megajul pro/con)

No better way to spend my morning than with videos from EpicTV. Watching an episode about New Belay Devices Coming Out in 2017 .

What are some of your thoughts on the new devices?

-The ATC Pilot is an amazing steal from Edelrid. It looks like it functions very well but is limited as a sport belay device. I wonder if they plan on making a device for two ropes. Does anyone know about Edelrid patents on the Megajul line?

-I love the Megajul but this new megajul sport looks tanky! My favorite thing about the Megajul is its weight combined with its assisted braking technology. At 65g (compared to the gri gri at 170g) there just isn't a contest when it comes to long approaches or long multi pitch climbs where every ounce counts. I am fairly certain the new Megajul Sport won't jump into the next weight class, however with steel construction it probably doesn't take much to bring the weight closer to a trusted favorite, the ATC Guide (88g).

-Now lets talk GriGri+. I think adding plastic bits outside the already BOMBER GriGri2 is a silly idea; plastic breaks well below 45Kn. However the changing spring tension is a SWEET idea. Im sure it will make a big difference in rope access work, big walling, and rope soloing. Im not so sure that the every day climber will notice a big difference between the modes.

What do you think?

Looks like the GriGri2 has some high wear aluminium parts replaced with steel. Good for longevity but bad for weight, figured the new one would be lighter than the one before it.

Here's a link to another post about thoughts on the GriGri+

I'm craving potatoes. Not sure why.

Firestone wrote:No better way to spend my morning than with videos from EpicTV. Watching an episode about New Belay Devices Coming Out in 2017 . What are some of your thoughts on the new devices? -The ATC Pilot is an amazing steal from Edelrid. It looks like it functions very well but is limited as a sport belay device. I wonder if they plan on making a device for two ropes. Does anyone know about Edelrid patents on the Megajul line? -I love the Megajul but this new megajul sport looks tanky! My favorite thing about the Megajul is its weight combined with its assisted braking technology. At 65g (compared to the gri gri at 170g) there just isn't a contest when it comes to long approaches or long multi pitch climbs where every ounce counts. I am fairly certain the new Megajul Sport won't jump into the next weight class, however with steel construction it probably doesn't take much to bring the weight closer to a trusted favorite, the ATC Guide (88g). -Now lets talk GriGri+. I think adding plastic bits outside the already BOMBER GriGri2 is a silly idea; plastic breaks well below 45Kn. However the changing spring tension is a SWEET idea. Im sure it will make a big difference in rope access work, big walling, and rope soloing. Im not so sure that the every day climber will notice a big difference between the modes. What do you think?

The ATC thing is a direct copy of the Salewa Ergo, since that´s basically rubbish then no great hopes for BD´s effort here.
The MegaJul is crap and a sport version probably no better.
GriGri+, well the GriGri2 was worse than the original and now it´s loaded with jumk no-one needs so following in the fine tradition of "product replacement".
The WC Revo thing we shall wait and see,:- whether it´s reliable in service, when it gets recalled and what it´s actually good for.

Jim Titt wrote: The MegaJul is crap and a sport version probably no better. G

Will you concede that the Megajul is awesome at belaying a sport leader? Locks reliably, feeds well once you get the hang of it. Other functions are "meh" but assisted belay is awesome on this thing. No Megajul posters up in the gyms yet next to the GriGri poster that shows you how not to drop your climber.

Jim Titt wrote: The MegaJul is crap and a sport version probably no better.

What is it that you don't like about the Megajul?

is that man wearing yellow overalls. Sorry, I got distracted.

Firestone wrote: What is it that you don't like about the Megajul?

In his tests with a drop tower it took more force from the brake hand to hold a high force fall (not to be confused with a high factor fall).

I've been using the jul 2 and find it works well belaying sport leads with medium to fat ropes. I stopped using the mega jul for my alpine climbing with a 9mm rope.

The Revo is the only product bringing something new to the market, everything else is just a rehash of old designs. Whether that "something new" will be a success or a failure is yet to be seen, it looks pretty nice, but a bit too complicated. If there are any potential failure modes they will be extremely difficult to predict or understand, since all the workings are deeply hidden inside the device.

Firestone wrote: What is it that you don't like about the Megajul?

I agree, it's by far the worst belay device I've used, and I've used most of the ones on the market at one point or another. I find the device does not lock whatsoever on my 9.4mm rope on rap. I was rapping down a tower, and when I would releace the device, the rope would continue to slide through as if it was an ATC. Worse yet, it tore up the sheath and left a bunch of sheath fibers all over the device. For added fun, you could hear "tearing" of the sheath fibers as you used it. Nice.

On thicker ropes, the result was the opposite. On a double rope rap with 9.8mm strands, the device is difficult to unlock and it more or less results in either a complete free fall or a total stop. Further, I had to pull up on the thumb loop so hard my thumb actually got pumped by the end of the rap.

Call me a noob, but I've never had problems using any of the other few dozen devices out there, so I put the Megajul all the way at the dead-last spot on my list.

20 kN wrote: I was rapping down a tower, and when I would releace the device, the rope would continue to slide through as if it was an ATC. Worse yet, it tore up the sheath and left a bunch of sheath fibers all over the device. For added fun, you could hear "tearing" of the sheath fibers as you used it. Nice. On thicker ropes, the result was the opposite. On a double rope rap with 9.8mm strands, the device is difficult to unlock and it more or less results in either a complete free fall or a total stop. Further, I had to pull up on the thumb loop so hard my thumb actually got pumped by the end of the rap.

WOAH! I know the device is finicky but I've used mine for a few months now and never had any other problems than belaying two seconds in guide mode (which sucks with almost every device depending on rope diameter) and rappelling in assist mode. I have never found sheath fibers on my device and I have never heard tearing of ropes.

Now that I have used the device a bit I can rappel easily in assist mode and I actually love it! The only time I don't use the assist mode to rappel is on a freehanging rappel. I find that with full body weight on the device it is harder to release the rope, but on less than vertical terrain I haven't had any problems except for occasional slipping (but then the gri gri slips in the same way)

Have there been a lot of accidents with the megajul and dropped leaders?

Firestone wrote: What is it that you don't like about the Megajul?

Just about everything, it does nothing well and only a few things vaguely adequately. Some of it´s flaws have been outlined below by others.
Like 20kN it´s bottom of the list for me.

I'm surprised to see these negative reviews of the Mega Jul, my personal experiences have been different.

The principal advantage over ATC (and my reason for getting it) was the locking assist function, which I've found to be excellent, and really helpful in inspiring confidence when my belayers are much lighter than me. I haven't yet brought up 2 seconders in guide mode (and do this very rarely), but have found single-rope guide mode as easy / smooth as with my ATC Guide. I haven't tried lowering in this mode yet, again it is a rare event - but I must test it at some time. I didn't buy this as a rap device, but of course expect it to perform well in that usage. Edelrid recommend using it reversed (thumb loop towards you) as a normal tube/plate device, and it works very well in that configuration - just like an ATC or any other. I've found it to work very well for lead / TR belaying, with a bit of practice I can now feed rope out faster to a leader than with my ATC guide, and lowering is easy & smooth. It is a bit more fiddly to configure / use than the ATC Guide I know so well - which I think is fair trade for the assisted locking ability, and will be immaterial with a bit more practice. I use thin ropes - 9.4mm single, sometimes paired with 8.9mm half in half-rope system, even my gym rope is a cut-off Nano 9.2 - and I love how the Mega Jul works with these and adds a bit of security with catching lead falls. I use the recommended Edelrid HMS Strike karabiner with it, and generally find it works very well with all applications - and exceptionally well for gym/sport belaying.

I have a minor concern with the hand position (I'm used to lead belaying with brake hand further down away from the device and don't want to spoil that conditioning for when I use an ATC) - but my major concern is Jim's testing showing that it has LESS holding power than the ATC Guide. This is the only thing stopping me from committing to it as my one device to rule them all, and if it really is inferior in its ability to hold hard falls - it fails its primary purpose, and I'll scrap it.

So the question for me is - do these poor test results have any bearing on real life? Is the benefit of the locking assist (real, proven) outweighed by its apparent lesser ability to hold a major fall? Has anyone in the real world experienced slippage or inability to hold a big fall on a Mega Jul?

Alex Rogers wrote: Has anyone in the real world experienced slippage or inability to hold a big fall on a Mega Jul?

Yea, me, as I just said. Mine doesent lock for crap when rapping on my well-used 9.4mm rope and I'm only 150 lbs. By contrast, on double 9.8s it's hard to get to unlock. My GF experienced the same thing and she doesent like the device either. It works okay for catching lead falls, but for everything else it has room for vast improvement.

The MegaJul is far from the only locking assist device out there. Nowadays locking assist is pretty much the de facto standard. The Smart is a much better device and it basically functions the exact same. The downside to the Smart is it's a bit bulky, but at least it actually works.

Hey 20kN - sorry, I meant slippage when catching a fall.

Understand that you experienced slippage when rapping in lock-assist mode, which wouldn't be confidence inspiring. Can I ask, were you using with Edelrid biner? I think it is very sensitive to karabiner cross section & size.

Alex Rogers wrote:Hey 20kN - sorry, I meant slippage when catching a fall. Understand that you experienced slippage when rapping in lock-assist mode, which wouldn't be confidence inspiring. Can I ask, were you using with Edelrid biner? I think it is very sensitive to karabiner cross section & size.

I think the Petzl Attache 3D if I recall right, but I am not 100% sure. It was an HMS biner though.

Since this turned into some interesting discussion on the MegaJul, I wanted to add to the positive experiences. I mostly used mine with a 9.8mm (and larger) and a Strike carabiner. Locks like a dream, lowers perfectly, and the sheath on my rope was perfect after well over a year. Maybe I just got lucky? I ended up saving enough for a GriGri for sport and ATC Guide for multipitch, but for the money the MegaJul sure went a long way.

The one feature that never worked all that well was belaying in guide mode, which I notice is the feature that they've dropped from the new model. That seems like it bodes well. BD Pilot looks like a mimic of the MegaJul/Jul2/Ergo.

That Revo thing looks pretty intriguing and strange, but also expensive.

I like my mega Jul, use it in a variety of settings but you have to understand it's limitations.

Really interested in the revo, will be getting my hands on one ASAP just because its so different.

Don't like the looks of the bd device, appears like it would be hard to lower a climber, and not enough size on the little lip up front to make sure you catch it everytime you feed slack

LoL at all the megajul h8ers. I'm a big guy(6'4 220#) I have used a mega for over a year now. It's never come close to tearing the sheath of ANY rope, and I've used it on ropes from 8.2-10.2. It absolutely holds me when in auto-lock rap mode(I've tried it LOTSA times). I found with a lil practice the thumb release is very controllable(I will admit at first it was a bit herky jerky and hard to get used to). I've caught several to many leader( some of them BIG BOYS) falls and it seems to catch just fine, of course I don't take my brake hand off the rope so can't really say if it ";;slips";; there ;) .... guide mode can be a lil difficult to pull rope, but not if you use your other hand to help feed as you pull with the brake hand. It weighs so little that I can carry 2 of them, one as my primary and one in my chalk bag pocket as a spare....and I'm still lighter than a atc alone... never mind the boat anchor grigri you can leave on the ground.

BigB wrote:LoL at all the megajul h8ers. I'm a big guy(6'4 220#) I have used a mega for over a year now. It's never come close to tearing the sheath of ANY rope, and I've used it on ropes from 8.2-10.2. It absolutely holds me when in auto-lock rap mode(I've tried it LOTSA times). I found with a lil practice the thumb release is very controllable(I will admit at first it was a bit herky jerky and hard to get used to). I've caught several to many leader( some of them BIG BOYS) falls and it seems to catch just fine, of course I don't take my brake hand off the rope so can't really say if it ";;slips";; there ;) .... guide mode can be a lil difficult to pull rope, but not if you use your other hand to help feed as you pull with the brake hand. It weighs so little that I can carry 2 of them, one as my primary and one in my chalk bag pocket as a spare....and I'm still lighter than a atc alone... never mind the boat anchor grigri you can leave on the ground.

My experience is similar to yours. I have one friend that weighs over 200lbs and it never fails to catch and I have never had slippage. My skinniest rope is also a 9.8.

I think the problems some have with it is its claim to be all things, it is not great as a plaquette and lowering and rappels are less than optimal. Like bigB I use mine to catch leader falls, the other functions could use some improvement but the simplicity of the device is a winner for me. I use the old Petzl Attache with totally round bar stock.