Bolted multi-pitch, not swapping leads: anchor tactics

call it whatever you want.. it's what i use. Dynema sucks compared to nylon for any kind of personal teather and I extend that to building the anchor. I use the rope for building the anchor most of the time other than if i know i will be leading blocks. When leading blocks I often but not always use a set up like the photo with nylon runner.

Its generaly a bit of APINTA to use the rope to build anchors when leading in blocks. Nothing that can't be sorted out by two pros but when guideing I stick to my modified sling anchor.

If it's bomber bolts I wouldn't worry about equalizing and complicated quads. Just bring two 120cm dyneema slings with pre-tied masterpoints with two lightweight biners on each ear and a small locker on the masterpoint. You arrive at the station, tether yourself to bolts, set the anchor, belay off it, your fiance arrives at the anchor, clips into it, you grab the second set and off you go.

My rig is not complicated. simple and slicker than cat shit on linoleum..

Nick Goldsmith wrote:seems to work just fine for me.... I try to Never use skinny Dynema for the actual masterpoint. I do only use the quad for leading in blocks though I often have that pre tied sling in my rack for slinging stuff...

Strictly speaking, that's not a quad in your picture. A quad will be a doubled sling (or cordelette), with knots tied on each end. Point being the clipping point is redundant with multiple strands. Your set up it basically an equalette, but you're not clipped to both strands like an equalette is supposed to be used (unless that biner on the right is also clipped to you? hard to tell)

If you try to construct a text book quad with that sling you'll see what I'm saying.

Also, I personally wouldn't use what you're showing in that manner. I don't know of any time I've ever seen it recommended to belay off a single strand of a sling. Pretty much all anchor recommendations have some sort of redundancy in material where you connect to them.

I am the one climbing. One strand is clipped to my belayer under tension. the other strand is clipped to the belayer with a bit of slack in the system as her back up. when I was at that station I was clipped in tight to the loose loop and backed up loose to her tight loop. that way you are both able to hang on the anchor and be redundant yet you are not all squished together like you are when hanging off a single master point. just because you did not read it in a book does not mean it does not work.

Oh, ok. Like I said, it was hard to see what was going on in the picture. Sounds fine to me. Text book equalette.

doligo wrote:If it's bomber bolts I wouldn't worry about equalizing and complicated quads. Just bring two 120cm dyneema slings with pre-tied masterpoints with two lightweight biners on each ear and a small locker on the masterpoint. You arrive at the station, tether yourself to bolts, set the anchor, belay off it, your fiance arrives at the anchor, clips into it, you grab the second set and off you go.

This. This is exactly what I do as well. And, if rappelling the route, we just reverse the process on the way down - first to the anchor sets up MP-anchor, clips-in, and so on.

My system is hands down the best system for multi pitch hard ice where equalization actually matters. your two best screws get the equalete or whatever you want to call it treatment and then you clove hitch one of your lead strands into the third oh shit screw. cordelets Never actually equalize ice screws. You (not me , i don't use that shit) get you cordelet all perfect but as soon as the leader starts the next pitch the belay has to shift possitions to avoide the ice bombs that never go exactly where you thought they would. Now two legs of the cordelet are completly slack and the single leg that has 100% of the belayers weight on it is the worst screw of the whole lot. happens that way every single time. Murphy is damn good at his job ;)

Yes. with bomber bolts equalization is not nessicary. the whole point of the pre tied rig is to make it super simple for the client. My pre tied rig just happens to be both super simple and offers equalization.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:My system is hands down the best system for multi pitch hard ice where equalization actually matters. your two best screws get the equalete or whatever you want to call it treatment and then you clove hitch one of your lead strands into the third oh shit screw. cordelets Never actually equalize ice screws. You (not me , i don't use that shit) get you cordelet all perfect but as soon as the leader starts the next pitch the belay has to shift possitions to avoide the ice bombs that never go exactly where you thought they would. Now two legs of the cordelet are completly slack and the single leg that has 100% of the belayers weight on it is the worst screw of the whole lot. happens that way every single time. Murphy is damn good at his job ;)

Actually, if you are so worried about equalizing (i.e. iffy individual anchor points), I would worry more about extension and thus shock load on an individual piece in case one blows. NO EXTENSION is by far more important than EQUALIZING, imho. The system you have in the photo, has limiting knots way up high - imagine one ice screw blows - you are looking at almost a foot of extension (at least your photo looks like)...

It's set up that way so you have enough room to do shit like dodge ice bombs in the real world. Equalization of ice screws is critical. share the load and nothing blows.

It is only 2. a single 4ft nylon runner with limiter knots to add redundency and make it fast and easy to use. if a normal sliding x was used it would not be redundant and it would also be more complicated and not equalize as eficiantly.

DCohen wrote:Because everyone here loves to argue about anchors... I'm planning on taking my fiancee up her first multi-pitch route soon (bolted line, bolt anchors)...My go to anchors are rope, quad, cordelette, etc., depending on the situation.

Multi-pitch sport route? Sheeeee. Just set up two quickdraws with four lockers. Leave the quad, cordalette, etc. at home or in the car where it belongs. In fact, if you and the lady both have personal anchors like twin slings with lockers girth hitched to your harness, you won't need the stupid quickdraws, either. Just clip to bolt hangers at the anchor and belay right off your harness.

A nice setup is to put lockers on each bolt, clove hitch your end of the rope to those to get some distance, and then add a draw to one bolt to redirect the belay to your second. Makes belaying very comfy and if the second falls you get pulled up, not down.

Stich wrote:A nice setup is to put lockers on each bolt, clove hitch your end of the rope to those to get some distance, and then add a draw to one bolt to redirect the belay to your second. Makes belaying very comfy and if the second falls you get pulled up, not down.

Can you explain this some more? Seems like the you wouldn't be equalized. May be my complete misunderstanding of the setup.

Stich is a wise man.

john2.71 wrote:...redirecting up through a biner more than doubles the force on the single bolt.

Keeping in mind that in this specific situation you're dealing with the relatively low forces of a top rope fall.

I agree with Stich - keep it simple and leave the knitting projects at home.

Luke Majewski wrote: Can you explain this some more? Seems like the you wouldn't be equalized. May be my complete misunderstanding of the setup.

Equalization is not even attainable completely, as is explained in the other 3 point anchor thread by rgold. Redundancy is key and each bolt can handle the whole show. KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Also, LeFWAMS. Less Fucking With Anchor Means Speed.

Many climbers carry a tether of some sorts, so I use my tether to build the anchor off of. I am a fan of completing tasks using equipment I normally bring on the climb anyway, so if I am going to bring a tether I am going to use it for more than one thing. In the case of bolted belays, I build my anchor using my PAS. This eliminates the need for me to bring extra slings or cord or the sole purpose of building an anchor.

Further, if one wishes they can tie in with the rope as well (I do), to provide redundancy over the PAS.



This entire anchor takes me about 20 seconds to build, it will hold 22kN limited by the strength of the PAS, and it meets the requirements of SERENE. Further, it requires absolutely no additional equipment over what I normally bring anyway. It's literally as simple as connecting my PAS to a bolt, throwing a draw over to the other bolt and setting the GriGri up on one of the PAS loops to belay the second. Thrown in the rope on a clove for more redundancy if you wish. For belaying the leader, I just take the GriGri off the PAS and throw it on my belay loop.

If I am rappin' a route, I'll use a trad draw connected to my belay loop as a second sling for redundancy.

Folks, please, for the love of dog, take photos of anchor setups with a neutral background to eliminate the visual noise that obscures what you're trying to show. Put it on a wooden or concrete floor or hang a bed sheet or something behind it!