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Efficiency while moving a belay

Original Post
bridge · · Gardiner, NY · Joined May 2016 · Points: 65

Generally speaking, what's the most efficient way to move a belay at the top of a pitch?

Here's the situation -- haven't seen it covered in any books or web forums.

I'm the leader belaying a 2nd from the top from a large tree at the cliff's edge. I'm positioned over the edge, clove-hitched into a locker on a doubled cordelette slung around the tree. Behind the tree is a 3' deep ledge, and we need to reposition the belay 15 ft. to the left for the next pitch. I don't feel comfortable breaking down the cordelette anchor without a backup.

What we did: My 2nd moves to the new belay position, comfortably away from the edge, and builds a 2-piece gear anchor. She then puts me on belay before I break down the tree cordelette and get ready to lead.

Is there a more efficient approach for situations like this? Could the 2nd clove into the tree with enough slack in the rope to move to the new belay position, skip building the gear anchor, and then break down the tree cordelette once she's on belay from the top? While it's very unlikely she'd slip off the edge, she'd be facing a 15 ft. factor 1 fall.

Emmett Lyman · · Stoneham, MA (Boston burbs) · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 480

Depends on the specifics of your climb, but sometimes it's possible to put a piece in directly above the first pitch to protect the final moves and just build the anchor 15ft to the left at the base of the next pitch (maybe throw in another piece on the traverse if it's sketchy). It'll add a ton of drag at that top placement, though, unless you extend the crap out of it or use a revolver. You'll also want to be careful with your belay setup if you typically use guide mode since the rope's going to be coming in from the side rather than from below.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

This is a really good question, as I encountered a similar situation on my first major multipitch. Were you planning to block lead, or was your second originally going to lead the next pitch? We were swapping leads, so we opted to just belay from the original stance, and my partner did quite a bit of unprotected traversing (on lead but without any pro) to reach the next pitch without adding too much drag. Not something I would do again; although the climbing was very easy, the consequences would have been very severe.

I'm envisioning some system of self-belaying the initial leader to the new belay spot using a Munter hitch, but I'm way out of my element and hoping RGold will chime in. :p

Matt Carroll · · Van · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 249

what the OP did is how I have always done it. I only takes a few extra minutes. If you really wanted to save time (maybe a minute) you could clove into the rope short while they are building the anchor and coil the rest over your shoulder. This way they don't have to pull all 60M over while you do nothing. Again, this saves maybe a minute.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Ted Pinson wrote:...and my partner did quite a bit of unprotected traversing (on lead but without any pro) to reach the next pitch without adding too much drag. Not something I would do again; although the climbing was very easy, the consequences would have been very severe.
As you gain more experience you'll find that this is not unusual at all and it's either something you get used to or you get more selective in your route selection.

Ted Pinson wrote:I'm envisioning some system of self-belaying the initial leader to the new belay spot using a Munter hitch,...
Don't over think or over complicate; either it's easy enough to do with no pro or you treat it as an extremely short pitch. Look at the older routes in the Gunks or Eldo - especially as described in the older guidebooks - and you'll find them littered with 20' - 40' pitches. These are usually to shift the belay to a better spot, improve communication/sight, or help reduce rope drag - sometimes all three!
Wilson On The Drums · · Woodbury, MN · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 940

The "bowling alley" approach to Devils Tower's popular "durance" puts the leader in this situation except the traverse is quite a bit longer than 15 ft.

I would say you have 2 clear options:

the first being like the OP did. Set up 2 belays one after the other.

The second option would be to do what others mentioned. Extend a piece at the end of the pitch the farthest you can to alleviate drag and set up the anchor after the traverse (taking into safety factors/risks/comforts).

In the case of the bowling alley approach to durance one is lucky enough to have bolted anchors so the usual course of action is once the second reaches the anchor, swap them over to lead, have them navigate the traverse, and then belay the original leader over once they have cleaned the anchor.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252
Marc801 wrote: As you gain more experience you'll find that this is not unusual at all and it's either something you get used to or you get more selective in your route selection. Don't over think or over complicate; either it's easy enough to do with no pro or you treat it as an extremely short pitch. Look at the older routes in the Gunks or Eldo - especially as described in the older guidebooks - and you'll find them littered with 20' - 40' pitches. These are usually to shift the belay to a better spot, improve communication/sight, or help reduce rope drag - sometimes all three!
Haha, it's funny you mention that because this was in Eldo (Bastille Crack). I could totally see the value in doing mini pitches like that because the alternative is often belaying a person from an awkward stance (for the next pitch) with fall potential from a direction of force that you might not have protected when building an anchor to belay up your second, all the while out of sight and hearing from your climber...and with inevitable drag even if you don't put any pro in.
Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

Re. the OP scenario-

Leader of first pitch could have known/recognized the better value of heading up and over to the second station, perhaps placing a directional piece of pro on the lower tree... and this way saving time and hassle.

Depending on whether or not this is feasible.

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

I see Emmett Lyman already said what I just added. He brings up an excellent point on top of this:

"be careful with your belay setup if you typically use guide mode since the rope's going to be coming in from the side rather than from below."

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
Russ Keane wrote:Depending on whether or not this is feasible.
Also have to be careful that the rope won't run through loose rocks on the belay ledge. You can always build the higher/traversed anchor location for the next pitch, run the rope through a locker (or two opposite/opposed wires), walk back down to your desired belay spot, and clove the second's side of the rope to a locker on your belay loop. If there is a traverse between your anchor for the next pitch and current belay location also secure yourself at the first potential anchor location.

Tie a bite on either strand going up to your main anchor and you can belay the follower in guide mode. When they get to you just transfer the device to your belay loop and you can belay them up. If you want extra security while you are moving just adjust your clove.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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