outside corner pitch 3 belay bolts and memorial plaque.

So far this thread has been fairly on point, without the usual pissing match comments. Let's try to keep it that way. The back and forth banter is fine when it's actually on topic, when we start calling names and berating each other is not a great portrayal of our community.

nooky brown wrote:What was the point of posting the pic? I gather you are a Wasatch local but I can't tell if you have a problem or not with it. I don't think that you do, so why bring it up? It's such a touchy subject that posting it was just asking for trouble.

Wait, so when people make fucked decisions we should just collectively avert our eyes and turn our backs?

^^^ Some times its better to handle local issues locally. And quietly.

There's a fair amount of local activism here, with trail work, graffiti clean up, etc. We do alright, without always airing dirty laundry.

Although, it does provide fine entertainment value (ha ha...ugh).

wrote: Am I a CRACKER DICK? ... edited as the person who posted this deleted their post, but I'm keeping the CRACKER DICK comment, just because

Not only are you a cracker you're probably a lily white hipster.

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Seriously though, all too often MP seems to stand for morality police. If you're not local it is possible the innuendos have gone right over your head. Maybe there's another forum just for you.

I posted it because the thread had drifted from a discussion about the retro bolting and memorial plaqueing of an exiting, highly trafficked route to a discussion of a plaque that was installed by the FA in a remote and seldom seen location. It seems to me that this area, like IC, has sprouted plaques and that those that have the gumption to take the walk appreciate the effort required to do a new route there and are tolerant of the markings.

Appreciative and tolerant!

Yeah, the dirty laundry is embarrassing, but the public forum can manifest positive actions. All of us crusty, cracker dicks here in the Wasatch need to practice getting over ourselves a bit and take a longer view with regard to how our actions fit into the big picture. Along with the installations and markers discussed in this thread, here's a breakdown of some of the other issues that have come up recently:

Have you been to fairyland? Well it has cropped up in Maple:

Maple canyon vandalism

Seen the wooden blocks screwed into the firs at the base of the Beach Ball crag? I removed half of them before busting the two bits I had with me. Take Torx 25 bits and an impact driver if you want to finish the job, or I will get to it over the weekend.

Beach Ball crag vandalism

Many of you know that we have a heart breaking graffiti problem. If you are not familiar, take a walk along the LCC Trail and check out the big boulders in the vicinity of the old Whitmore pavilion. The SLCA has been doggedly fighting this for over 10 years now, and we are coordinating with the USFS and Cottonwood Hydro to see the pavilion removed.

Pipeline boulder vandalism

As climbers, how far can we push the privileges we have enjoyed in the face of the increased use on our public lands? We are better served by showing restraint and embracing LNT as much as possible. Let's not tarnish the longtime, generally positive relationships with local land managers.

Don't be a coward. The community is here to help vet European sentiments and potential changes to existing climbs. There will always be negligence and ignorance, so let's work set a better example for the growing numbers of new climbers. Hopefully, we can waste less time dealing with the fallout from misguided actions and spend more time out enjoying our shared resources.

What Brian said yall.

Brian in SLC wrote:We do alright, without always airing dirty laundry.

Well, one could easily think if you were 'doing alright' then that tag wouldn't have survived long enough to have made it on to MP.

I can't help but feel that this isn't your fight Healye. You cracker dick.

Originally, I was against the small plaques, still on the fence, but James convinced me to try them as an experiment...he installed them. I didn't paint Horne's of Satan on the rock either. The main reason for the plaques was that climbers were complaining that they couldn't find the start of the routes...it's a big wide face. Now, a different group of climbers are complaining....we expected this. One plaque has already been removed, it's not been replaced, and never will be. If people don't like the plaque, just remove it, although it might be nice to talk to James first. Haven't talked to anyone yet who has climbed either of these DC routes and said: "The plaque ruined my day."

It's always good to have a discussion, as long as it's not too marred by trollers, posters hiding behind a false internet name, or out-of-state climbers who have never been to the base of the Castle. I'm glad James had the vision to start climbing here. The very euro influence that some people don't like was what got James to explore this area in the first place.

mediocre wrote:I can't help but feel that this isn't your fight Healye.

Any time anyone tags, plagues, or otherwise defaces rock at a climbing area it's everyone's business. It's an access issue. It's a culture gone completely awry issue. And it's shit that's likely to spread elsewhere as it's seen online and as people move around, so it's not just a local issue which is about like saying zika is a Miami issue. It's everyone's business.

bsmoot wrote:Originally, I was against the small plaques, still on the fence, but James convinced me to try them as an experiment...he installed them. I didn't paint Horne's of Satan on the rock either. The main reason for the plaques was that climbers were complaining that they couldn't find the start of the routes...it's a big wide face. Now, a different group of climbers are complaining....we expected this. One plaque has already been removed, it's not been replaced, and never will be. If people don't like the plaque, just remove it, although it might be nice to talk to James first. Haven't talked to anyone yet who has climbed either of these DC routes and said: "The plaque ruined my day." It's always good to have a discussion, as long as it's not too marred by trollers, posters hiding behind a false internet name, or out-of-state climbers who have never been to the base of the Castle. I'm glad James had the vision to start climbing here. The very euro influence that some people don't like was what got James to explore this area in the first place.

Thanks for your insight into this discussion, very nice to get some perspective from a FA on this matter. I can definitely understand the not being able to find the start of the route argument. It's something I've faced myself. On the other hand, I can't help but point the finger towards the climber when not being able to find a particular route. I mean do people even use the hand drawn topo anymore? Moreover how many even know how to read one? It's part of the challenge, part of the experience and sterilizing that part of the adventure by simply labeling the wall in my eyes is a bit like doing your child's homework for them, sure they get the grade but miss out on the education. In this case the education being route finding skills. Again I believe this to be a responsibility of the climber to do their homework, it's much more rewarding to confirm ones assumptions gained by research, rather than just going on the faith of looking for a plaque or marker. If you don't do the necessary research and the marker has been removed then what? Self reliance is a great asset to have and it starts with smaller objectives like the routes along the Wasatch. I know the Wasatch isn't considered a crown jewel in the climbing community but it's what we have and I'm of the mindset that I'd rather not have the whole wasatch turn into a gym-like atmosphere.

I've never had an issue finding routes on the castle or following Brians and Brian's well done topo's. Plaques are cute and all in the desert, but I don't think they're appropriate or necessary in this region.