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Quad Question

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
JRZane wrote: My issue with relying on only slings (of any length) for bail anchors is not being able to completely wrap a feature (preferably a fat tree).
Why not use sewn slings for your alpine draws and tie your own (1 or 2) double or triple length slings instead of sewn ones? You can always untie them for bail anchors.
JRZane · · Jersey · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 95
wivanoff wrote: Why not use sewn slings for your alpine draws and tie your own (1 or 2) double or triple length slings instead of sewn ones? You can always untie them for bail anchors.
i do use sewn slings for my draws. and I like the idea about a few knotted. point taken!

its things like this that keep me coming back.
patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
JRZane wrote: maybe you could give me another quick lesson. My issue with relying on only slings (of any length) for bail anchors is not being able to completely wrap a feature (preferably a fat tree). even double lengths often aren't long enough to girth a nice trunk where a nice coil of cord usually is. aside from leaving gear in cracks (which I'm fine with if required), what type of anchor are you building with just slings?
Well generally I'm not attaching myself to large trees where I am climbing. Nor am I bailing off them. So the problem doesn't arise. If there is a tree the trunk would be no more than thigh width so a single sling would do. I carry eight of alpine draws. That gives me plenty of sling length to do whatever if I had to bail.

My history of bailing (as much as I recall):
Bad weather: Bailed off the bolts on Snake Dike, left a carabiner on bolts.

Scared of massive runout no pro on Tuolumne Meadows climb: threaded bolt with rope and rappelled.

Rain: Bailed off Lamplighter on a full trad anchor (slings, nuts cams). Retrieved the following day.

Slow party of noobs: Bailed off a big fat hex. Retrieved the following day.

That pretty much covers my unplanned bailing in a good decade of climbing. On single pitches there are a few times I've had to be lowered having not completed the climb. I've cleaned the route but finding an alternative access.
JRZane · · Jersey · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 95
Nathanael wrote: cut a sling and re-tie around natural object if it's too big to wrap doubled
any concerns with cutting/tying 8mm slings? seems thin in my mind, no idea if theres any science behind it. and id also be cutting multiple and tying multiple knots, which I know DOES have science behind the concern (although rapping is probably well under failure threshold).

again, point taken but i don't think this is a preferred option for me.
JRZane · · Jersey · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 95
patto wrote: Well generally I'm not attaching myself to large trees where I am climbing. Nor am I bailing off them. So the problem doesn't arise. If there is a tree the trunk would be no more than thigh width so a single sling would do. I carry eight of alpine draws. That gives me plenty of sling length to do whatever if I had to bail. My history of bailing (as much as I recall): Bad weather: Bailed off the bolts on Snake Dike, left a carabiner on bolts. Scared of massive runout no pro on Tuolumne Meadows climb: threaded bolt with rope and rappelled. Rain: Bailed off Lamplighter on a full trad anchor (slings, nuts cams). Retrieved the following day. Slow party of noobs: Bailed off a big fat hex. Retrieved the following day. That pretty much covers my unplanned bailing in a good decade of climbing. On single pitches there are a few times I've had to be lowered having not completed the climb. I've cleaned the route but finding an alternative access.
again, all your points are taken. I also realize that my fear/concerns of a situation are slightly exaggerated and the likelihood of events being quite low. But i guess thats why people value experience.

thanks for your time and input with all this.
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I generally rack my draws on a sling and clean gear onto another. Both of these slings I wear over the shoulder whenever I am trad climbing and both are constructed of 1" webbing knotted. This is my rap tat if I have to bail. For long multi-pitch I'll usually throw some more spare webbing and cord in a small pack. I will often also have a cordalette on me that I could cut up as well, although I'd rather leave my assorted lengths of cord/webbing that aren't useful for anything else.

I would suggest bringing your long cordallete and leaving behind the shorter length of cord for rap tat. If you already have a long cordalette, there's not really a need for another piece of cord.

BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385
JRZane wrote: any concerns with cutting/tying 8mm slings? seems thin in my
You will only be using body weight, so there should not be a concern if you tie the slings properly. I believe most concerns are for the Dyneema material being tied, but the concern should be when the sling is going to possibly see high forces. Even hitching slings together would be ok. Check and set the knots properly if you cut and tie the slings because they can have a tendancy to not hold well.

To my point earlier, it has more to do with being efficient and improvising when needed. There is no need to bring more gear with you than needed - unless, you are just that kind of person. I used to be that guy, but slowly started leaving gear that I never used at home. I found I could make do with what I already had on me.
wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
JRZane wrote: any concerns with cutting/tying 8mm slings?
Yes. They're slippery and don't hold knots well.

You could also consider strop hitching a few alpine draws together to make something long enough to get around your tree.
blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

I mean, how often do you bail? You can afford to sacrifice some slings.
JRZane · · Jersey · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 95
wivanoff wrote: I mean, how often do you bail? You can afford to sacrifice some slings.
between belay stations? exactly zero times.

this is all "what if" scenarios.
patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
wivanoff wrote: Yes. They're slippery and don't hold knots well. You could also consider strop hitching a few alpine draws together to make something long enough to get around your tree. blackdiamondequipment.com/e… I mean, how often do you bail? You can afford to sacrifice some slings.
Agreed. There is no way I'd be cutting and retying a skinny sling. If I'm bailing my life is worth girth hitching a couple slings together as needed. (Though like I said, only once have I not gone back to retrieve bail gear and that was just and old krab.)
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

I have now had to mess with these quads on sport anchors twice. Who invented this overly complicated and cumbersome thing? Why can you not just get two long, sewn runners and put four lockers on them? Just untangling this mess and checking to see if the lockers are on correctly wastes valuable craned neck time for your belayer.

Please...

Just stop.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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