Bolted Slab routes - trad, or sport?

Guy Keesee wrote:Doligo..... This former room mate of yours. So he quit climbing in like 1963???????? Is he still alive????

Yep, pretty much around that time. he still occasionally climbs now and then, mostly with passive gear and not very hard. And yes 70' groundfall does not always mean death, but odds do increase. IIRC, in the film about FA of Supercrack of the Desert by Earl Wiggins and Co, one of them mentions possibility of death leading on hexes. It kind of sounds overly dramatic now, but I think BITD it was not an exaggeration.

^^^ How does a person quit climbing in '63, but still climb occasionally (on passive gear, no less...).

Heck .... I never said a 70 foot GROUNDER is safe........ But a 70 foot SLIDER on smooth glacier polish is different

Sort of like crashing a motorcycle, only in reverse

Carry on

Alex Bury wrote:^^^ How does a person quit climbing in '63, but still climb occasionally (on passive gear, no less...).

As in if I were a serious cyclist for a while and then stopped. I could still go on occasional bike rides even after years of hiatus, but it does not make me a cyclist.

Guy Keesee wrote:Let's not derail this simple topic of how to tell a Sport climb from a climb, with talk of drumming down climbs to make em safe by addition of more bolts. That horse has been beaten to death before on MP. To David ..... It's not your right to be able to climb ALL climbs, unless YOU up your game. To take a 70 foot slider is not necessarily a prescription for death or even injury...even without a helmet! Gasp!

Thanks Guy, but with all due respect, I never said that that I demand all routes to be safely bolted, etc. It's fairly easy to misinterpret or extrapolate idea from a post... I do climb run outs, don't advocate adding to established test pieces-unless the original developer decides to do so, which does occasionally happen. And in such cases, it often turns a fun and challenging route into something that can be appreciated by more people without the dubious thrill of watching someone get into trouble and anticipating a rescue.

And again, y'all, note the IMHO.... I enjoy Marty Lewis's comparison of gu bolting to pbj construction, and realize the implications of what guys had going on.

Here's a tip: if you're scared of a forum topic being derailed, resist the urge to respond to it and let a comment die out on it's own.... Scratching the nettles just makes it go on much longer. Like this...

Matt N wrote:(mainly to David, but to all who believe the same) Having the mental prowess to climb a runout slab is no different than having the physical ability to climb 5.12 sport. Its easier for some than others. Retrobolting R/X climbs is the same as chipping or glueing holds in a 5.12 to bring it "down to my level". Either you can climb it, or you can't. Find a rope gun if you can't lead it. Hard routes and runout routes have less lines. Its self-selecting; another plus. And until you have climbed ALL other "safe" routes, in your grade range, you cannot bitch about runout routes. There are plenty of safely protected routes you can do, if you're not up to the runout stuff. Climb all of those first, then get back to the FA about adding some bolts.

The world changes over time. Most people don't want to climb stuff that could leave them in the hospital. It is one that to say don't bolt a climb that you can protect with trad gear. It is another thing to say hey you can't fall here or you will die we don't want bolts.

Most people aren't free soloers but you are saying you have to be a free soloer to climb this because we aren't going to protect it.

You know what if the route is 5 pitches of 5.10a climbing and you want a run out 6th pitch on 5.5 climb than sure you are probably ok since the people climbing it should have much of an issue with that type of runout. But 6 pitches of 5.10a runout every pitch climbing for the "mental aspect" is just stupid because noone is going to get on it unless they climb 5.12.

ViperScale wrote: The world changes over time. Most people don't want to climb stuff that could leave them in the hospital. It is one that to say don't bolt a climb that you can protect with trad gear. It is another thing to say hey you can't fall here or you will die we don't want bolts. Most people aren't free soloers but you are saying you have to be a free soloer to climb this because we aren't going to protect it. You know what if the route is 5 pitches of 5.10a climbing and you want a run out 6th pitch on 5.5 climb than sure you are probably ok since the people climbing it should have much of an issue with that type of runout. But 6 pitches of 5.10a runout every pitch climbing for the "mental aspect" is just stupid because noone is going to get on it unless they climb 5.12.

One of the most popular easy slab multi on the chief has exactly one bolt

For the most part you cant fall on the 5.6/7 slab ... If you do youll get seriously hurt on it

The FA was done in 1965 with no bolts and in mountain boots and had been done for decades by many climbets in that style

If you cant basically solo moderate slab you have no business being on moderate multis around here

;)

bearbreeder wrote: One of the most popular easy slab multi on the chief has exactly one bolt For the most part you cant fall on the 5.6/7 slab ... If you do youll get seriously hurt on it The FA was done in 1965 with no bolts and in mountain boots and had been done for decades by many climbets in that style If you cant basically solo moderate slab you have no business being on moderate multis around here ;)

Which is stupid. I can climb 5.10+ slab and there is a 5.8 120ft pitch that I really want to climb but it only has 1 bolt. I will not risk my life to climb it even though I can climb much harder.

I am fine with long spans between bolts where you could get hurt. But at some point it goes from a broken leg at worst to possible death at worst it isn't worth doing.

ViperScale wrote: Which is stupid. I can climb 5.10+ slab and there is a 5.8 120ft pitch that I really want to climb but it only has 1 bolt. I will not risk my life to climb it even though I can climb much harder. I am fine with long spans between bolts where you could get hurt. But at some point it goes from a broken leg at worst to possible death at worst it isn't worth doing.

Then don't do it. Find a different route to climb. No one is forcing you to climb a particular route. BITD there were two Bachar routes I wanted to climb - Edging Skills or Hospital Bills and the Bachar-Yerian - but I sure as hell didn't want to lead either: Edging Skills is a 10b solo (no trad pro, no bolts) and everyone knows about the B-Y. I couldn't find someone who wanted to lead them, either, so I just did other routes.

David Lyons wrote:runout bolt-protected routes without placement options are a way of showing manliness and courage. Old routes put up in this style are constantly held to be superior in some aspect - if it's not dangerous, it's just wimpy climbing. IMHO, I call bullshit. As much fun as runout bolt routes are, I find it's just another pissing contest that turns what could be a fun outing into a nerve-wracking experience for plenty of people who want to enjoy climbing without broken bones or worse. I understand the old way of GU FA's, but bolts are cheap today, and drills are fast. I laud any old bold masters who aren't too arrogant to allow or install additional pro to turn X's into PG's or G's on their routes.

David.... With all due respects. I am trying to understand just what you are trying to say. Just exactly what your advocating for?

The written word is so elusive, sometimes.

I read this as saying you think it is OK to go and add new/additional bolts to established climbs.

Yes or No?

ViperScale wrote: Which is stupid. I can climb 5.10+ slab and there is a 5.8 120ft pitch that I really want to climb but it only has 1 bolt. I will not risk my life to climb it even though I can climb much harder. I am fine with long spans between bolts where you could get hurt. But at some point it goes from a broken leg at worst to possible death at worst it isn't worth doing.

if you lack the ability then dont do it ... nobody is forcing you if you cant step up to an an easy climb which generations of climbers have done for the past 50 years just fine in mountain boots, tennis shoes, EBs kaukulators, boreal fires, etc .... if you dont have the ability to lead runnout 5.6/7 with fancy modern rubber

mountainproject.com/v/banan…

1967 guide

its the most soloed multi around here ... its not like the rope is going to do too much if you fall on lead on the slab anyways

effing newbies have lead up it for decades ...

;)

Didn't know you need pitons and a hammer on the Apron? :)

Edit: piton

Bill Kirby wrote:Didn't know you need pitons and a hammer on the Apron? :) Edit: piton

In 1967 you did! You needed them everywhere else, too!

Marc801 wrote: In 1967 you did! You needed them everywhere else, too!

Thought :) meant joking! Kinda figured it was an old guidebook after reading "150' rope".

Bill Kirby wrote:Didn't know you need pitons and a hammer on the Apron? :) Edit: piton

bear defense against the squamish slab bears ...

they feast on the tasty bodies of folks who whip on 5.7 apron slab ...

im proud to say ive bred some superior slab bears with stealth C4 paws ...

nothing motivates you so simul faster as a c4 clad slab bear chasing after you

;)

Bill Kirby wrote: Thought :) meant joking! Kinda figured it was an old guidebook after reading "150' rope".

I knew you were joking, and my response was just as facetious. If you look at the image from the guidebook that bear posted, next to its lower right corner is the caption "1967 Guide"

Note to MP landlord for the S/W rewrite: captions are better below the photo and left justified.

Marc801 wrote: I knew you were joking, and my response was just as facetious. If you look at the image from the guidebook that bear posted, next to its lower right corner is the caption "1967 Guide" Note to MP landlord for the S/W rewrite: captions are better below the photo and left justified.

Oh, my bad :)

I didn't realize there were guidebooks in Squamish in 1967!! An old timer I met in Birken BC told me the 99 stopped at Whistler.

Bearbreeder,

A friend climbs 5.6 slab in 5.10 Freerider MTB shoes!.. And he's 60!!

bearbreeder wrote: if you lack the ability then dont do it ... nobody is forcing you if you cant step up to an an easy climb which generations of climbers have done for the past 50 years just fine in mountain boots, tennis shoes, EBs kaukulators, boreal fires, etc .... if you dont have the ability to lead runnout 5.6/7 with fancy modern rubber mountainproject.com/v/banan… its the most soloed multi around here ... its not like the rope is going to do too much if you fall on lead on the slab anyways effing newbies have lead up it for decades ... ;)

I've climbed Banana Peel recently (well, recently compared to that 1967 quote). It has a bolt now. I also remember there being more gear than just 1 piton. But, yeah, also lots of run-out slab climbing.

I'm not a particularly strong climber (fell leading a 5.8 yesterday), but I didn't find it too much of a problem, either.

Guy Keesee wrote: David.... With all due respects. I am trying to understand just what you are trying to say. Just exactly what your advocating for? The written word is so elusive, sometimes. I read this as saying you think it is OK to go and add new/additional bolts to established climbs. Yes or No?

Perhaps my writing is not as eloquent and clear as I think....but,

I am not advocating the addition of bolts to established climbs - unless it is by the original developer/FA'er.

I have climbed routes that were lots of fun, and challenging, wherin the person who originally put it up decided to add more pro to a sketchy runout line, thus making it a much-enjoyed route. I think that this behavior is cool.

I guess that's it.

Climb what you want, I'll do the same. Y'all can call me an artsy-fartsy panty-waisted wimp or what have ya, I don't give a dang. I climb to get away (as much as possible) from humans, fondle nature, challenge myself, and possibly even have fun doing it. I don't care who's wiener is the longest.

mountainproject.com/v/the-k…
I didn't read the entire thread. But in case nobody posted it already, here's a link to the route in question. Including my response to the OP's question in the comments section.