Other than the "normal" stuff, what would you teach a new outdoor climber?

I've done some searching on MP and found a scattering of good tips that are best described as "less than common." I'm part of a climbing club trip this weekend - the goal is to train indoor climbers to lead trips for the club outdoors (no multi-pitch). Yep, we'll do crag etiquette, knots, anchors, etc... but what are the lesser heard tips that make life easier when leading a group of people at the crag? Yes, the AMGA SPI manual and related ones online have been reviewed, but most of the material in there is utterly common.

Here's a list to get us started.

1. Rapping your TR - sometimes it can be legitimately faster to rap from the top once you have set up a TR instead of walking down... BUT this means you better know how...
- Get onto the rap with an anchor hanging over a ledge beneath you.
- To lock off your rap and even ascend the rope in case of a hopeless tangle.
- Use a chest harness or other method to stay upright if you have a ton on your back.

2. Redirecting your TR to another climb
- Getting another climb off of the same anchor, how to "build" a redirect and related direction of pull issues.
- Understanding what happens if your redirect piece pops with a loaded rope (the pendulum is always surprisingly huge, IMO).

3. How to get new climbers to stop f***ing complaining about the shoes being too tight.

4. Insert your tip here...

Cheers.

downclimb ...

;)

Rgold posted something to the effect of how to get asked out on a second date. I would look that upeople and review it.

Andy P. wrote: 1. Rapping your TR - sometimes it can be legitimately faster to rap from the top once you have set up a TR instead of walking down...

almost never

Andy P. wrote:Get onto the rap with an anchor hanging over a ledge beneath you.

should have just walked off

Andy P. wrote: To lock off your rap and even ascend the rope in case of a hopeless tangle.

yep, definitely should have used a walk off

Andy P. wrote:Use a chest harness or other method to stay upright if you have a ton on your back.

another reason for a walk-off...

But seriously, if you have a big group - whoever sets an anchor walks while people can start climbing. The most important thing in climbing with big groups is time management and having the group engaged. While you were dicking around rapping off and constructing a chest harness, someone could've been climbing already.

Leave no trace!

This may seem harsh but I doubt that any indoor climber could be ready to lead outdoor trips after a single weekend of instruction.

There's just too much information to assimilate. When guiding other people outside I've found that the biggest challenge is managing the needs of the clients/participants. This is going to be even more challenging or impossible if the person leading a trip doesn't have all of the technical systems dialed in already.

Just my 2cents.

Lol yeah. You're in Wisconsin so I'm assuming you're climbing at Devil's Lake...I would walk off anything on the East Rampart. There are some climbs that are better to rap into (Lost Face, Cleo's), but you probably wouldn't bring beginners there, anyways.

One thing I often have to teach new outdoor climbers is how to top rope belay on dynamic ropes...you get lots of people who are used to static gym ropes and freak out when they deck on a fall near the bottom or leave too much slack/don't yard out the extra stretch.

Be wary of any advice that begins "never" or "always".

Figure out the difference between "safe" and "safe enough for you". Choosing to climb will never be completely "safe". Knowing what is "safe enough for you" only comes with time, experience, and understanding, and it's a personal decision hopefully made knowingly.

Climbing is truly dangerous as shit. The more you learn, the more you realize that there are a lot of things that can kill you that you've maybe never realized. For example:

Be very careful if you choose to climb above or lower from fixed sport-style clippable shuts that are below you. A friend of mine died when he clipped his rope into shuts below him to rappel and lowered over the side, accidentally loading both gates with one strand of rope.

Ethics and etiquette

Teach 'em to not poop where they climb.

Teach 'em to pack it in & pack it out.

Also, teach 'em to use their own gear when Top Roping and to rappel after leading and not lowering.

Teach 'em not to do this.

Andy P. wrote:3. How to get new climbers to stop f***ing complaining about the shoes being too tight.

Start by not putting beginners in tight shoes. They don't need tight shoes to climb 5.7. They probably don't even need rock shoes, but that depends a little on the type of rock you're climbing. But there's certainly no reason for them to be tight. They'll have more fun if they're comfortable.

Get the group moving efficiently. Having someone ready to climb as the last climber touches down. That means the group gets more routes in and a route isn't monopolized for hours. That may seem common sense, but it isn't. We've all seen the lonely top rope hanging with no one on it.

Benjamin Chapman wrote:to rappel after leading and not lowering.

A great opportunity to explain a controversy and arguments for both

-From a former "always rappel" person who became a "usually lower" person

Get a good lawyer
Yer Gonna Need One

:)

I suggest redefining "normal stuff".

The entire concept of "what you should teach a new outdoor climber" constitutes the "normal stuff" in my mind.

Such as, for this one:

Andy P. wrote:3. How to get new climbers to stop f***ing complaining about the shoes being too tight.

Well, um..., how about telling them to not use such f***ing tight shoes?

And, honestly, teaching new outdoor climbers to lead outdoor trips for the club in one weekend is a serious disconnect. How about teaching them f***ing caution, and everything that could go f***ing way wrong, and why they shouldn't even f***ing think about leading club trips until they're not "new outdoor climbers"?

1. Make sure they understand that if they are in a position of leadership and "leading" a trip, the safety and lives of the people they are leading are their responsibility.

2. Keep the student:guide ratio no more than 4:1

Kent Richards wrote:How about teaching them f***ing caution, and everything that could go f***ing way wrong, and why they shouldn't even f***ing think about leading club trips until they're not "new outdoor climbers"?

This.

There's already far too many people who think Munter is a type of cheese and who couldn't climb back up a rope if their life depended on it.

If you're leading a group you need to know far more than just how to tie in and build an anchor. That's like driving a car and not knowing how to change a flat. (Heck, I would argue that someone in that case shouldn't be considered competent to operate a vehicle.) Similarly, if you're leading a group and something goes wrong, you'd instantly find yourself beyond your level of competency.

Andy P. wrote: Understanding what happens if your redirect piece pops with a loaded rope (the pendulum is always surprisingly huge, IMO).

If your directionals routinely "pop", perhaps err on the side of caution before jumping into leading groups and building anchors for them. Maybe you construct adequate top rope anchors for your own climbing, but you shouldn't be in charge of top rope setups in institutional setting till you fully understand physics of proper anchors or till you gain enough experience.

Always weight your rap device before you unclip from the anchor.

Also...+1 to not leaving shit where people can find it.

Andy P. wrote: I'm part of a climbing club trip this weekend - the goal is to train indoor climbers to lead trips for the club outdoors (no multi-pitch).

No where does the OP say he is sending people out to lead climbers after giving them some advice. His climbing club is "training" people to do this, I'm sure the club has their procedures.

Lighten up people.

bearbreeder wrote:downclimb ... ;)

You say this fairly regularly, bearbreeder. And I've paid attention. I've found down climbing to be very useful in a number of situations and do it fairly often to assess what's ahead of me, back out of something I'm unsure of, or just when I enter a crux incorrectly. I can't say I can down climb at the same grade I can go upwards, but it's still been a very valuable skill to have so far.