First trad rack- nuts and cams or double of cams?

So I have climbing for about two years total and about one year of sport.(I have 12 quick draws) So far I have only been doing one pitch. The the hardest sport route I have lead was a 5.10b. So getting to the question, is it better to have nuts and a rack of Black diamond Camelots sizes .75-4 or a rack just of Camelots .75-4 but have doubles?

nuts are pretty cheap. If you're thinkin of investing in a double rack, get the double rack, get the nuts.

Go .3-4 if you are going bd, and a full set of nuts. You need both, and your partner can contribute some gear as needed.

Get a set of nuts from 4-13 or equivalent sized DMM wallnuts and a set of C4s from .5-3. You probably won't need the smaller nuts or the #4 camalot for a bit. If you only have sport draws then you'll need some 24" runners and a couple of 48" runners and biners for both. Everybody has their preference but I like Nano 22s for the protection side, Photons for the rope side, and 10-13mm slings.

All this stuff is going to be expensive but you'll likely end up getting the nicer, more expensive stuff eventually so you might as well get it now. If money is an issue your best bet is to either wait until a really good sale comes up in the off-season or try to find lightly used gear. You can get a lot of really nice gear with tons of life left for relatively cheap here on MP.

full set of DMM walnuts ...

full set of cams from the #0.3 to #3 BD size or the equivalent in other brands ...

it all depends where you climb but for squamish thats pretty standard

if you climb with trad partners you dont need double out here anyways ... theyll have a single rack too

EVERY beginner should be proficient at placing nuts

;)

bearbreeder wrote:EVERY beginner should be proficient at placing nuts ;)

+1000
Cheap, light and effective what is not to love for a beginner. You learn far more about the subtleties of gear placement with nuts.

Like many have said. A set of nuts and a set of cams is a basic rack. Doubles in cams and/or nut depends on you budget and where/what you climb.

I learnt mostly on nuts but now I place mostly cams these days as they are faster and I have plenty. But sometimes nuts are just more suitable and will protect you where cams won't.

I'm a newer trad leader, and here is what I've found:

Nut's will place, and be bomber, where cam's won't, or are marginal. Cam's are nice, but not the be all end all of pro.

I would actively try to ID good nut placements over cam placements when you start. Especially if you're not panicked, or are at a good stance.

Also, while BD cam's are nice, go to a store and try handling some other brands. I have a bit of buyers remorse after finally getting my first few UL Mastercam's. They just feel much nicer than BD, and I like how they place. Part of me wishes I had gone with these as my primary cam. I may still swap out the few doubles I have for them.

Also, you'll probably want at least down to 0.4 size (I use an UL MC #2, and #3 to cover this range - which has some overlap with the small end of a 0.5). The #4 depends on your area. I picked one up because I knew a lot of climbs in my range have some wide sections at RRG - and it's gotten a good amount of use so far. But if you don't know you need it I'd hold off in favor of the 0.5/0.4 sizes.

Yup...nuts! I carry wired "Stoppers" (BD Brand, but any brand will do) up to about the size of my thumb's thickness. The smaller half of that range they don't even make cams that thin, and in the middle part of that size range most cams would either blow out of a crack or "blow up", as I think they are more designed for aid; although a Metolius "00" held one of the hardest (fall-factor-wise) falls I've taken.

Tricams!

As someone on here has said before "it's not a trad rack unless it has tricams"

very useful here in the east.

Ha! tricams .....yuck

There's no need to go all out right away, I think using a variety of stuff helps you find what you like. Everybody goes BD because it's everywhere,,doesn't make it the best for you.

Metolius and Wild Country make great cams..I even have some Wired Bliss..very good.

Don't fall into the trap of gearing up..get some stuff and really learn how to use it, then expand.

Newer trad leader here, and I'm about 30-40 pitches in. I've forced myself to go all passive (hexes, nuts, tricams). I've developed way more skill in getting good placements than I ever would have with mindlessly placing cams. Only exception to this was the mandatory #4 cam I had to use on Durrance crack on Devil's Tower.

I feel like I've developed more in 3 months of all-passive than some other local climbers I know that have been strictly cam tradding for 2 years.

Alex Zucca wrote: mindlessly placing cams.

Nuts are far easier to place. Drop them in a constriction.
Cams, on the other hand, take much more evaluation and thought to place safely.
You need both cams and stoppers for any significant amount of trad climbing. Silly to only use passive gear.

WOW ! i really try to never "mindlessly place gear" no matter what it is.

Relax, he was being hyperbolic.

Yeah, set of nuts, hands down. One set of nuts gives you a ton of possible placement opportunities for the cost of about 1-2 cams. When starting out, you should always be climbing with someone more experienced who will also have a rack, making doubles unnecessary. You will eventually want doubles, but not from the beginning. Consider the cost difference between a set of nuts ($70) and an entire extra set of cams ($400-$500) and the choice is pretty obvious.

You also don't need that big of a cam range to start. A set of nuts and cams 0.75-2 will get you up most beginner trad climbs that you should be doing to start. I would get a 0.5 next, then a 3. I had doubles of micros up to C4 #2 before I bothered getting a 4, I would definitely hold off on that (really big, expensive, and route specific).

Ideal beginner rack:

Metolius Master Cams #0, #1, #2, #3

BD X4 Cams: #0.5, #0.75

BD C4 Cams: #1, #2, #3

DMM Offset Alloy Stopers sizes 7-11

DMM Wallnuts sizes 1-6

Serious question:

When did people start saying things like "sport rack" and "trad rack"? A rack is a rack and draws are draws. There's no such thing as a "sport rack". I feel like this is a new thing. Like in the last 3-4 years.

Get off my lawn!

Serious question: who said anything about a "sport rack" in this thread?

DMM nuts are better than most cams. The wallnuts are sweet but the Alloy Offsets 7-11 are unreal with the ease and (at least apparent) strength of placement. Highly recommend singles of cams to 3 inches (maybe even skip the really small stuff at first) and then DMM Walnuts and Offsets

Actually, here's a question about the DMM offets: how are they in non-flaring placements? I see a lot of people saying they only use these, but it seems like in non-flairing placements you're potentially giving up a lot of surface contact.

I am going to be the black sheep and say DONT GET NUTS. As a beginner you wont like placing them and when you do they will probably not be good placements. Double cams

climbing friend,

for the leading trad you will most certainly need big, fat pair of nuts.