Mutlipitch sport anchors/ PAS???

Hello friends.

I am in a disagreement with a fellow climbing partner in regards to anchors, or lack there of, during multipitch sport climbs. It has been my method to always build a quick anchor (generally, 2 non-lockers through the bolts, and an equalized and tied off sling for the master point and hitch with the rope). When my partner tops out they use their PAS with two lockers, one into each bolt at the belay station, then an additional quickdraw to redirect and belay the follower (belaying from their harness). This is only a concern with us for bolted belay stations and swing leads, as the follower just continues past the person using the PAS as the pseudo-anchor.

the argument on my partners side is that their way is faster.

Insight from all you genius climbers is appreciated!

It would seem both ways can be fast enough so why does it matter

Oh Boy.

Troll?

How long before someone rips you a new one?

Depending somewhat on the situation the safest and easiest solution is the simplest one: use the rope rather than the sling or PAS. Two lockers, clove hitches to each with a figure 8 tied as a masterpoint on the loop in between. Give consideration to which side your follower will be climbing up on when choosing which point to clove to first. Even better is a "bunny ears figure-8" (name?) if you can learn it. It's super fast, simple to eaqualize yourself to both points.

Whatever you do, make it SREME and no PAS thong from your buddy please :)

I don't use either method if swapping leads, but on rare occasion will use your method.

I don't like using a redirect off the anchor while belaying off the harness. It doubles the force on the anchor. Not an issue for beefy bolts, but could have an impact on a trad anchor. I like to keep things habitual and redirecting is not a habit I want to start.

Swapping leads with bolted belay this is my preferred method:

{someone else's picture}

Arrive at belay:
Clove into one bolt, pull up a hank, clove into other.
"Off Belay".
Alpine butterfly (easier to adjust) or fig 8 on bight between to create master point.
Adjust for convenience.
Install belay device #1.
Pull up slack.
Load belay device.
"On Belay".

{less than a minute, unless your gassed, puking, etc.}

When second arrives:
Second clips into master point. (may be eliminated if on ledge or good stance)
BFK on brake strand (add a biner for safety in bight).
"Off Belay".
Load belay device #2 (that second brought up) onto harness for lead belay.
"On Belay".
Undo BFK.
Undo belay device #1 (hand off to new leader)
New leader unclips from master point and blasts off.

Other than escaping the belay, which is likely going to be somewhat of a cluster anyway. I can't think of a good reason to use more for swapping leads on bolted anchor climbs.

Jason, he said fairly specifically that this was for sport multi pitch on bolted anchors, so the redirect is fine and may in fact be preferable, particularly if they're using Grigris. Added benefit of being able to easily lower if needed.

Just clove hitch into both bolts and hang the grigri or guide device on one of the bolts. Doesn't get much simpler. Belay off the harness and redirect if you want.

Sure, it's not equalized between both bolts, but it's still strong, it's still redundant, and it still has very little extension if a bolt broke (had to say it) unless the bolts are two feet apart vertically.

What Jason describes.

Super quick, you're not belaying off your harness, if you feel that you might need to lower your second just use a GriGri on the master point instead of a guide style tube device.

Sam Stephens wrote:Just clove hitch into both bolts and hang the grigri or guide device on one of the bolts. Doesn't get much simpler...Sure, it's not equalized between both bolts, but it's still strong, it's still redundant, and it still has very little extension if a bolt broke (had to say it) unless the bolts are two feet apart vertically.

I've seen that setup, and don't particularly like it. Sure, I'm a big fan of simple, strong, redundant, and not equalized anchors (I think that equalizing two bolts isn't usually necessary), but that setup lacks redundancy at the bolt hanger attachment point. It relies on a single piece of fixed hardware- the bolt hanger than the gri-gri or guide plate is attached to. This lack of redundancy is pretty unlikely to kill you, but there are more elegant solutions available.

JCM wrote: I've seen that setup, and don't particularly like it. Sure, I'm a big fan of simple, strong, redundant, and not equalized anchors (I think that equalizing two bolts isn't usually necessary), but that setup lacks redundancy at the bolt hanger attachment point. It relies on a single piece of fixed hardware- the bolt hanger than the gri-gri or guide plate is attached to. This lack of redundancy is pretty unlikely to kill you, but there are more elegant solutions available.

Or you clove your device to the other side of the rope and belay off the rope. Now both hangers have to rip off the bolts to fail the system.

I find myself doing that a lot when I have to extend anchors way back at the top of a climb. Go sling a tree, pull rope, clove myself in with 15' of rope, go down and find where I want to belay, clove the belay device into the other side of the rope and belay.

Btw, a redirect does not double the force put on the anchor.
In the sense that 150 pounds on one side needs to be resisted by 150 pounds on the other side, yes, it does double. But in the sense that he falling 150 pound climber now weighs 300 pounds, no it does not.

If a 150 pound climber is standing on a ledge and using a rebelay and the 150 pound climber he is belay falls, both the weight of the belayer and climber are on the anchor, 300 pounds, nothing more (aside from the initial momentum the second may have gained in his fall).

On the next pitch, the team has moved up to a semi hanging belay. The second falls and there is still only 300 pounds on the anchor.

When I'm on a wall and hauling 250 pounds with my 2:1 system, there is still only my weight and the weight of the haul bag on the anchor, nothing doubles.