New BD ATC Pilot

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty comparable to American gyms now...probably about 90% GriGris, 10% Jul/ATC/misc.

@TedPinson: For gyms I see at least 50% of people using the Mammut Smart like devices (incl. Salewa, Edelrid ones etc). More of them than grigri's actually, but that's just my personal experience. Outdoors guie style devices are still needed for multipitch where many of the others don't work.

The gyms I climb in, Mid Atlantic region, are more like 30% grigri, 10% jul/smart, 60% ATC.
I'll be curious to see if BD comes out with a guide version of the pilot. Mammut did for the Smart, and I just bought an Alpine Up, which is a "guide" version of the Click Up. Though the jury is still out on the Alpine Up for me, it's supposed to be rated to 10.5 but my 10.2 is pretty damn stiff in it, I wanna grab a friends 9.8 and see if it gets smoother.

Black diamond better make this thing light the salewa ergo weighs as much as a grigri 2 and looks just like it, if it's not really light it's gunna be a hard sell especially considering the edelrid Jul 2 and mammut smart weighs half as much.

Morgan Patterson wrote: ugh...sigh...

Haha.. Ive been doing that a lot lately round here.

that guy named seb wrote:Black diamond better make this thing light the salewa ergo weighs as much as a grigri 2 and looks just like it, if it's not really light it's gunna be a hard sell especially considering the edelrid Jul 2 and mammut smart weighs half as much.

Ergo is listed at 70g per DAV. (The 170g commonly listed includes the auto lock biner since Salewa sells it as a SYSTEM)
GriGri 2 is listed at 170g sans biner

Jul 2 is 100g
Smart is 82g
Both Jul2 (.5kN) and Smart (.6kN) have notably less clamping force on the rope vs the Ergo (1.9kN)

Each device has trade offs in handling vs performance. It's a mixture. From first look the Pilot likely will be very much like the Ergo. If its handling often requires you to "hold it open" on the "trunk" like so many others when feeding slack I'll pass. Doesn't improve on the ClickUp. Time will tell.

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