Alpine Draws for Sport Climbing?

Looking for some advice on using alpine quickdraws on sport routes. What are your all's thoughts on using them on sport routes? I have one that I occasionally use but I'm thinking about getting more and using them more frequently to reduce rope drag. I am more concerned about the safely aspect of using them that frequently. Reason being I know that they are more susceptible to cross loading and such since they are more free to move around due to not being on a dogbone. I know most crossloading strengths are 6 to 8kn so I'm wondering how concerned I should be of a crossloaded biner breaking under a fall. I know people very commonly use them for trad but I wasn't sure if they would be suitable for frequent sport route usage since falls are more common while sport climbing. Any other comments or pieces of advice are welcomed. I'm just try to idiot check myself to make sure there's not something I'm not thinking about. Also wire gate or solid? I usually see alpines in wire gates but I assume that's for weight savings more than anything. Are there other reasons, gate flutter, etc?

Thanks.

You can also get longer versions of your sport draws. Many sport draws like the Petzl Spirit Express come in different length.

I have mostly 18s but often times I want something really long for those routes that have a lot of features and such. The rock here can be pretty jagged so I try to keep my rope off it as much as I can.

Nothing really wrong with alpine draws on sport climbs. I certainly do it on the few occasions I clip bolts.

Though if you are taking whippers regularly on hangers then you might end up with sharp notches in your biners which if later used for the rope can cause issues.

Thanks for the input. I'm careful to always use the same biner for the bolt side. Also I regularly check my slings for wear so I'm not overly concerned about the notching.

I would be more concerned about developing notches on the "bolt end" biner and then clipping it to a cam sling...you might consider just taking apart one of your sport draws and placing the biners on a sling. That way, you're not wearing down your trad draws.

I'm very curious as to what sport routes require so many alpine draws. I've used a few on big roofs, although a long sport draw will usually do. Are you sure you're not going a little nuts with extension?

When I climb I carry 5 alpine draws and a few quick draws. Alpines are just more versatile so I like having a few. Bolt side biner is straight gate and rope side is bent gate so I don't mix them up.

Ben J wrote:I'm thinking about getting more and using them more frequently to reduce rope drag.

Enlightenment strikes.

Ben J wrote:Are there other reasons, gate flutter, etc? Thanks.

Only reiteration:

Bolt end biner will become rough/grooved can shred nylon if used on rope side/ clipping to cam slings etc.

Don't use a raggedy roughened up biner on anything but a bolt.

Likewise, my bolt end biners stay with the sport gear. I don't use bolt end QD/runner biners at all when trad climbing.

If you're worried about cross-loading a biner as part of an alpine draw, grab a rope, a sling and a biner, and try to see if you can make it happen. I've not seen it happen, though I have seen biners turn around 180 degrees from rope movement.

I have a couple shoulder length slings on my sport rack. I just took two QDs apart and put the biners on some slings. This is mainly because it's sometimes nice to have the option to extend, though they often get used at the anchor instead.

I agree with what has been said about not using a bolt side biner on cams or the rope. Though I suppose you could inspect them regularly and file and burrs.

Ted Pinson wrote:I would be more concerned about developing notches on the "bolt end" biner and then clipping it to a cam sling...

This isn't really much of a concern. The reason that notching on the rope side matters is that the rope will be sliding over the notch/rough-spot/sharp-spot on the carabiner under tension, and this can movement under tension has the potential to damage the rope. On a cam-sling, there won't be the same movement under tension, so nothing like the same danger.

I'd sum it up to helpful but not required. I would not be concerned about overuse of alpine draws weakening them much more thannormal sport draws. However, while excellent for reducing rope drag, sometimes on those extra difficult clips the alpine draws may wiggle around on ya. However, I would harbor any drastic safety concerns.

Ben J wrote:I'm wondering how concerned I should be of a crossloaded biner breaking under a fall.

Biners can break or come unclipped. The lighter wire gates seem to have the most orientation problems.

Just carry a couple alpine draws with lightweight locking biners on the rope side.

Ted Pinson wrote:I would be more concerned about developing notches on the "bolt end" biner and then clipping it to a cam sling...you might consider just taking apart one of your sport draws and placing the biners on a sling. That way, you're not wearing down your trad draws. I'm very curious as to what sport routes require so many alpine draws. I've used a few on big roofs, although a long sport draw will usually do. Are you sure you're not going a little nuts with extension?

Currently I don't climb trad so I'm not too worried about cam slings. I'm not going to go crazy with using tons of alpine draws but I do want to start carrying 2 or 3 on windy routes or ones with ledges.

Thanks for all the input everyone. It's much appreciated.

Linked quick draws will keep your rope side biner oriented and make it easier to clip than a loose rope side biner on an alpine draw. Something to think about depending on the stance you'll be clipping from. Of course it does hang down further and if they're heavy it's a tad awkward. I used two djinn draws linked and a 120cm sling on a sport route last night. Made for a great rope run and a really soft catch :)