Beginner Training

I am basically a noob when it comes to climbing. I've climbed a few times over the years but have really gotten into it over the past 3 months. I am a big hiker, reasonably fit, exercise 5-6 days per week in various fitness disciplines (resistance, cardio, yoga)

Currently my life reality is...I can hit the climbing gym once...maybe twice per week, but more often once. I can get to the Gunks twice a month I would say to climb outdoors. I've been reading tons of books - Freedom of the Hills, Eric Horst training books. I am contemplating building a home wall.

Assuming I don't build a home wall what would be suggestions for making the most rapid progress? I figure general conditioning with an addition of dead arm hangs (I have a full home gym...pull up bar, weights, bike, rowing machine, space, etc) might be best. I realize there are no magic bullets and the best way to get better at climbing is to climb and train technique, not necessarily strength or endurance.

Given my schedule (two small kids etc) what would some suggestions be?

As you already said, the best way for a beginner to get better is climb a lot.
If you can't climb more than once a week in the gym, you can add a little bit of climbing specific strenght training, but that should not be a priority until you can climb 5.12.

Uh, what to you qualifies as progress? I would characterize it by how many days you set aside to climb in the Gunks. Who cares about the climbing gym? So, see how you can work that into your life. I wouldn't give a tinker's dam about how hard you climb the numbers but rather how often you get to go do it outside. Quality over quantity.

@stich I'd agree. Outdoors is my goal. The gym is a substitute. I'm not too concerned with numbers but rather being what I feel is a reasonably competent climber by my standards. To put it in perspective a goal of mine is to be able to lead the diagonal on Wallace in the adk in ny. I think it's about 7 pitches at 5.8. I live 2-2.5 hours from the gunks. Any more than 2 full day trips per month might result in divorce :)

If you're a fit hiker you can probably (physically) climb a 7 pitch 5.8 already. Just a question of learning how to climb (climbing technique and systems). Only way to achieve that is by practice and experience. Gym climbing can help build climbing technique and I guess you can practice building anchors efficiently in your garage if you want. Otherwise just get outside as much as possible.

Don't build a home wall, it will take 2 months and in that time you could already have climbed your goal route.

I see. Just keep your leads on the grades you feel challenged by but not freaked out on. Get your gear placement and rope management skills dialed in. Try and find a steady partner you can rely on. This alone will help you progress, as you won't have to constantly retrain or get used to a new partner.

thanks all for the insight. I'll continue to get outside as much a I can, go out with a guide here and there to accelerate learning or at least my personal level of comfort. Get out with experienced people on trad as much as I can. Continue with my gym thing, take their technique classes and learn to lead classes over the next months. Continue with at home conditioning and training, maybe with a little more focus on forearm strength and endurance (meaning working in dead arm hangs). Antagonist muscles, pullups, cardio, flexibility.

I think I should save the hangboard type stuff for a while. Everything I read suggests building tendons up and other climbing related things first - the risk vs reward is not worth it to a new person.

I'll continue with my top rope solos when I have no partner outdoors using my micro traxs. Practice rope skills, gear, knots, anchor building at home in any way I can. Read books and watch videos. I think I'm doing reasonably well for the short time I've really been applying myself to this.

Next March I have a trip planned (the family is going away and the wife told me to go do something I want to do) with Alpine Institute to do 2 days ice and 5 days winter mountaineering in the Sierra, then 2 days rock in Red Rock - that should be a cool skill builder.

There really is no magic bullet and I am sure I am not the first person to want to become a good, experienced climber faster than reality actually allows. Time takes time. Hopefully this thread resonates with some other people.

As an aside, I am fairly new to MP but not new to outdoor online forums. While all are subject to some of the same BS, thus far MP has been very useful for me and I have found the community helpful and receptive. I appreciate you folks being here.

@neils I was in a very similar situation to you for a long time. The best thing you can do is climb a lot. Learning the techniques and to move more efficiently and effortlessly will make more difference than any grades.

If you cant climb a lot then:

• Lose weight! (if you need to) - you can improve your strength-to-weight ratio much faster by losing weight than gaining muscle.
• Exercise with a focus on forearms/shoulders (i.e. climbing muscles)
• practice your knots
• practice clipping
• and yes! build a woody if you can

so it occurred to me - there is a crag about an hour from my house (Powerlinez) It's not as big as the Gunks, its 1 pitch, but its nice, and its closer, it's rocks and its outside. I've been there once and had a good day.

I can conceivably go there very early, climb for a few hours and be home by lunch time, or even go once in a while before work. It would most likley be me doing single pitch TR solo...but it's outdoor climbing and most of the climbs are at or above my current ability level. So it will only help me.

There's always a way if you're motivated enough!!! :)

As said above, if you cant climb 5.12 strength training shouldnt be your priority.

But two important things you can work on are grip and crimp strength, and core.

Stich wrote:I would characterize it by how many days you set aside to climb in the Gunks...Quality over quantity.

So a day in the Gunks is a day in the Gunks, there is no quality difference between whether you barely crawl up the warmup or lap all the classics?

To the OP, is going to the climbing gym a major inconvenience or are you just overall limited in time? If it's more the former I'd recommend picking up something with more complex movement pattern, even if it's not climbing. This can include boxing, martial arts or even dancing.

reboot wrote: So a day in the Gunks is a day in the Gunks, there is no quality difference between whether you barely crawl up the warmup or lap all the classics? To the OP, is going to the climbing gym a major inconvenience or are you just overall limited in time? If it's more the former I'd recommend picking up something with more complex movement pattern, even if it's not climbing. This can include boxing, martial arts or even dancing.

It's really a matter of extra time. I have 2 small children and a reasonably demanding full time job. I feel like ideally I would be at the climbing gym 2-3 nights a week and the crag at least one full day every weekend but that can't realistically happen. It's more like the gym 1-2 nights a week and the outside 2-3 days per month either solo or with a partner.

I've actually trained in martial arts for a long time and going to climbing gym is actually easier for me because the times are more flexible on my terms rather then designated class times.

I guess to re-focus my original question what I was really asking is...on days when I can't get to the climbing gym or climb outside what is the best thing for a newer person to do training wise if you don't have a home wall?

One perspective on fitness training in a way that complements climbing.

This more or less rhymes with what I think many coaches involved in climbing espouse - that general fitness emphasis that is good for climbing is biased towards general strength and work capacity (as opposed to longer steady state activities like running and cycling).

I'm defining climbing here as performance in a cragging / route sense (e.g. sport climbing), not alpinism where the overall fitness demands require high levels of endurance for approaching and moving over a large mountain objective.

reboot wrote: So a day in the Gunks is a day in the Gunks, there is no quality difference between whether you barely crawl up the warmup or lap all the classics?

You aren't going to learn much about climbing at the Gunks in the gym. Physically, the classic and not so classic beginner lines a the Gunks are not going to pump you out so much as broaden your mind. Sure, if you have whimpy forearms, calves, and quads, work on them. Climbing gyms are fine, but don't think you have to get a membership in order to be a climber outdoors. I can't f'ing stand them anymore myself, so I stay out.

Stich wrote: Climbing gyms are fine, but don't think you have to get a membership in order to be a climber outdoors. I can't f'ing stand them anymore myself, so I stay out.

ha ha, have you even been to the gunks???

slim wrote: ha ha, have you even been to the gunks???

Ha ha ha. Not only have I been, I got the grand tour with Dr. Kodos. So don't ever fucking question my superior knowledge again motherfucking, cocksucker, piss-drinking, shit-flinging pigman.



[You'll note I didn't actually write the last part. Kodos did.]

So, smart guy. Where is this store?

Guess

Well... I think Slim was making fun of the fact that everyone who climbs at the Gunks has a gym membership and started climbing there :)

Jeez, have you ever climbed at the Gunks?

Edit: I'm getting the feeling I'm only picking up on slim's sarcasm :)

Bill Kirby wrote:Well... I think Slim was making fun of the fact that everyone who climbs at the Gunks has a gym membership and started climbing there :) Jeez, have you ever climbed at the Gunks? Edit: I'm getting the feeling I'm only picking up on slim's sarcasm :)

I did in fact put four wonderful days in there a few years back with Richard Decredico, who knows more about the Gunks than anyone I have ever met. He lived there for at least five years. It's an amazing place. We climbed in the Trapps, Near Trapps, and even checked out the Lost City. I got all sorts of great stories about the people who climbed there, met Rich at Rock and Snow, and met and climbed with our own lovely Alicia, her husband Pavel, and their first son.

The hardest route I led was Ant's Line, and I blew the onsight by resting once. Arrrrgh. I climbed some stellar 5.5s and 5.6s as well. High Exposure is of course a 5.6. I can't think of a better area for a beginner to learn trad in. If you live near the Gunks, get out there as much as possible.

ummm r&s in n to the p? i was mostly just kidding him about the mohonk pass cost and the gunks being a pretty 'urban' crag in terms of crowds, shitshows, loud music, tribal tatoos, excessive perfume, etc.

great climbing though!

did you ever eat the gunks burger down the hill? burger on raisin bread. mmm!

No, but we got sammiches at the store and ate outside. I forget the name of it and that diner, which I also liked.

wow - my little thread has taken on quite a life :)

seriously though - it has been helpful - there is some good advice and info here :) and i managed to get out and climb this past weekend, and i'm able to go again tomorrow - sometimes it just works out like that