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Fixed Draws at the Peaks Crag?

Original Post
Marc Yamamoto · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 20

Opening discussion on adding fixed draws at the Peaks crag.

I am looking for insight on whether it would be acceptable to put fixed stainless, painted chain/cable draws with stainless carabiners on the hard to clean routes at the peaks. I would like to donate new draws, but if there is a large opposition, I will drop it and not contribute them.

Pros:
Easy of cleaning routes (3 or 4 on Burning Point/Scoop, 3 on Metro Line, 2or3 on Pitbull, 1 on Chasing Dragons, maybe 1 on Shaman?, open to discussion on which routes would warrant them)
Less swinging into trees during cleaning = safer crag
Routes become more accessible for climbing parties
Less of an eye sore than webbing draws

Cons:
Setting precedence for fixed draws around the crag.
They will require maintenance over a long term.
More visual "clutter"

Please add your opinion or harsh criticism (since this is MP) of the pros and cons of this idea.

Cheers

Eric D · · Gnarnia · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 235

First and foremost thank you for your willingness to pay for this stuff for the community.

I would personally be against fixed draws up there. It will be an eye sore, it is a sensitive area, and I don't see a need to make it more convenient for folks. Is it inconvenient to swing around to try and clean overhanging routes? Yes. Is it annoying to swing into trees once in a while? Yes. But I think that is okay and we don't need to make things as convenient as possible.

If swinging around while cleaning is a safety issue for someone they may need to find a different sport. :)

Once fixed draws start to appear they tend to spread. Fixed draws may be okay at some road-side crags, but maybe not at a beautiful semi-isolated crag like the peaks.

lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

Keep the Peaks free and clean..... hang ur draws on ur harness, lead it, clean it and move on....

Lets not make things too easy and convenient, after all this is rock
climbing.

Pandoras box opened.. where would it end.....

cheers... lou

Jimbo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,310

Ya, as I stated in another post. I hate it when I see a fixed draw as my eyes follow the line of bright white chalked up holds heading straight to the anchor.

Dominic Weinstock · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 230

If you add chain draws to bolts that are hard to clean......people will bitch......if you don't add chain draws to bolts that are hard to clean.....people will bitch......

Mike Broad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 305

I think draws would be nice.

David Deville · · Fayetteville, AR · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 90

I wouldn't care if it was just a draw or two for cleaning purposes or even a draw at a show stopper move. Coming from Arkansas though, I've definitely seen this mindset lead to full perma'd routes. It's worth noting that the majority of the perma'd routes in AR are the result of ONE highly influential climber's vision. This has led to a lot of controversy....

There is one crag in AR that I know of that really has this right (perma's only where vital to avoid hitting the ground/trees/etc), but it only works because the developers are locals who maintain the area and would take down unnecessary perma's. The area (cave creek) is, in general, MUCH steeper than the peaks and is still equipped very minimally with perma's.

Most of the routes aren't super steep so unless there are some really steep classics where a perma draw would add a lot of value, I'd probably leave it alone. That said, I'd never chop em either :P

Scott M. McNamara · · Presidio San Augustine Del… · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 55

I am a Tucson local---I am not familiar with the Flag access issues.

But isn’t one aspect of this question an access issue?

Aren’t the Peaks in wilderness?

If the Peaks are in wilderness, then aren’t the fixed anchors (if they were placed via motorized drills) in violation of the prohibition?

Wouldn’t more fixed anchors potentially jeopardize access?

[I am the lawyer who defended a climber in U.S. District Court in Tucson, accused of placing fixed anchors in the Coronado, so I am especially concerned about the access impact.]

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Did Burning Point and Chasing a couple of weeks ago. Didn't seem to tough to clean. My buddy did Metro and a couple of chain draws would be nice. Also one on Flowrider wouldn't hurt as it angles so much. Swinging into trees isn't good for them or the climber some times. A few here and there like the list seems fine. Some folks get carried away with them. If a draw is easy to clean then don't put chain draws on them. Full disclosure. (I did not have anything to do with the almost total equipping of a crag in Southern Arizona but I don't hate it.)

Psychmentor · · Mesa, AZ · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0

None of these routes are that hard to clean and fixed draws have no place at the area. A good general rule... if you feel your actions have the potential to jeopardize access... don't do it. As for draws left for multiple days... standard booty rules apply.

Marc Yamamoto · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 20

Mountain project vetoes. Sounds good. I remove myself from the ire of the community and will not put any fixed draws up. I don't agree with stealing others' draws if they are on a route though. Climbing booty is reserved for bail biners and obviously stuck gear. Cheers.

lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

Good call MarcYY

cheers... lou

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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