Adams Glacier vs. Kautz Glacier

For those of you who have climbed both routes, how do they compare? Which would you prefer to climb? I am looking to get on one of these this season but probably don't have the time to get on both.

More sustained, higher quality, and/or harder climbing is probably the top priority.

Adams glacier looked good and interesting from the North Cleaver last weekend. I haven't been close to the Kautz this season so I don't know what it looks like, closest I've been is Lane Peak (Tatoosh) in April.

Thanks!

Has nobody climbed both of these routes? They're a little off the beaten path maybe, but not that obscure!

Thanks Dave. I am looking for the more challenging route, and I also was under the impression that Adams Glacier would be it, but was looking for some confirmation from someone who had been on the mountain.

N. Ridge of Baker is on my short list, but coming from Portland Mt. Adams is much more convenient. It is also a lesser climbed route, which adds appeal. I am planning on Baker next season, most likely...

I have done the approach and descent route from Adams Glacier (North Cleaver) 2 weeks ago, the trailhead is melted out so it's very reasonable, about 5 miles each way.

I am not concerned about the technical challenge of the route(s), they are a good fit (if not conservative) for my party's skillset.

Have done both, the Kautz quite a while ago. It was pretty straight forward at that time and the main challenge was just slogging up it. The Adams glacier was more fun, less tiring, and you have the option of choosing a spicier line. Also possibly a bit more objective hazard (baseball sized rocks whizzing by). If you really didn't mind that descent (ugh!) it sounds like the Adams will suit you better.

Did both routes within last week. Kautz had solid ice climbing probably up to around 60 degrees, but navigation was easy. Adams had one pitch of ice that was easier than Kautz, but more steep snow that was sustained. We had to turn back on Adams most of the way up the glacier due to a huge crevasse blocking our path. This made for some scary downclimbing with large rocks barely missing members of our party.
I would recommend Kautz unless you want to do WI4 in and out of crevasses.

Oddly we just did the Adams Glacier last week and in 2008 the Kautz. First, anyone who says they climbed 60 degree ice on the Kautz was either off route or was measuring the slope in boys degrees instead of girl degrees (i.e. they can't measure worth shit). The Kautz is at best around 40 degrees and can easily be done with an ice axe and not two tools. The Adams on the other hand does require two tools for short parts but then has causal lower angle sections.

Dave Schultz gave an excellent review of both routes except the approach for Adams is really causal. IMHO the Adams Glacier is more adventurous than the Kautz. One will be crossing interesting cracks whereas on the Kautz the cracks are more straight forward. One crack on Adams currently requires one to down climb 15 feet or so then climb out the other side. Or one might cross through a crack via a debris field. Then there is the running of the serac field.

Before that there is a short ice step that needs to be cleared (WI3). Very straight forward but shorter and steeper than the two ice steps on the Kautz (WI2). The Kautz will have a shorter but higher summit day (3k to 14k) versus Adams (5k to 12k).

The one thing about the Adams Glacier that sucks is the North Ridge descent. The first 1k is snow but the next 3k is shit rock that sucks. The last 1k is no big deal. Did I mention that it sucks? We did an up and over on the Kautz and came down the DC. Very easy.

Overall the Adams Glacier is a step above the Kautz. It is not straight forward and is always changing.

I just did the Kautz. It is currently in more challenging conditions than most people's comments would have you believe, and my partner who had done it before also agreed it was much harder than previously. I can't comment on the other route, but as stated above the Kautz was about 60-70 degree hard ice with few rests unless you choose a steeper line. What makes it hard is doing it with with few screws, a big pack, a second hybrid ice tool that didnt do well on the hard ice, and burning calves.

MyFeetHurt wrote:I just did the Kautz. It is currently in more challenging conditions than most people's comments would have you believe, and my partner who had done it before also agreed it was much harder than previously. I can't comment on the other route, but as stated above the Kautz was about 60-70 degree hard ice with few rests unless you choose a steeper line. What makes it hard is doing it with with few screws, a big pack, a second hybrid ice tool that didnt do well on the hard ice, and burning calves.

A guide said the following about his mid June Ascent: but all told it was in the easiest conditions that I've ever done it in the past ten years.

cascadeclimbers.com/forum/u…

As such, I will stand my comment that most can not measure slope angle worth shit.

Allen Sanderson wrote: A guide said the following about his mid June Ascent: but all told it was in the easiest conditions that I've ever done it in the past ten years. cascadeclimbers.com/forum/u… As such, I will stand my comment that most can not measure slope angle worth shit.

I agree that slopes are often over estimated, nor did I have my slope meter with me at the time. But let me elaborate further, the crux wasn't the steepness, it was the lack of features and hardness of the ice. Solid WI3, but would be substantially easier if it had a couple inches of snow covering it. I suspect it usually does. The penitentes that are often referred to were only present on the lower (easy) pitches and the sides of the crux (aka steeper). So to me, the easier route was steeper with penitentes for resting the calves. There were a couple small crevasses to cross as well, which made for nice ledges.

I spoke with a nearby guide the night before while checking out the route from camp, his quote was 50 degrees up the center. A lot can change from mid June and fresh snow as quoted, let alone a 2008 ascent. My point is, the occasional reports of it being more of a moderate ice climb (as opposed to a snow slog) are apparently true. I would have been in trouble if I only had pickets.

Allen Sanderson wrote:Oddly we just did the Adams Glacier last week...One will be crossing interesting cracks whereas on the Kautz the cracks ate more straight forward. One crack on Adams currently requires one to down climb 15 feet or so then climb out the other side. Or one might cross through a crack via a debris field. Then there is the running of the serac field. Before that there is a short ice step that needs to be cleared (WI3). Very straight forward but shorter and steeper than the two ice steps on the Kautz (WI2).

Thanks Allen. Good to hear that you guys did it last week, I've seen a couple trip reports that made it sound completely impossible and I had trouble believing it. Climbing into/out of a crevasse and short ice steps sound good!

I don't mind the north ridge descent, it's crappy but it's not that big of a deal, I've summited that way so I'm familiar with it.

If the weather behaves, I am going to take a crack at it before the end of the month. Thanks!

MyFeetHurt wrote: I agree that slopes are often over estimated, nor did I have my slope meter with me at the time. But let me elaborate further, the crux wasn't the steepness, it was the lack of features and hardness of the ice. Solid WI3, but would be substantially easier if it had a couple inches of snow covering it. I suspect it usually does. The penitentes that are often referred to were only present on the lower (easy) pitches and the sides of the crux (aka steeper). So to me, the easier route was steeper with penitentes for resting the calves. There were a couple small crevasses to cross as well, which made for nice ledges. I spoke with a nearby guide the night before while checking out the route from camp, his quote was 50 degrees up the center. A lot can change from mid June and fresh snow as quoted, let alone a 2008 ascent. My point is, the occasional reports of it being more of a moderate ice climb (as opposed to a snow slog) are apparently true. I would have been in trouble if I only had pickets.

Consistent 60-70 degree ice isn't really, WI3 though, right? I'm not great with my ice grades, but a lot of WI3 stuff I have climbed had 60 degree stuff combined with near-vertical steps.

mountainproject.com/v/10595…
mountainproject.com/v/10847…

I don't think the Kautz is nearly that steep, is it?

Kyle Tarry wrote: Consistent 60-70 degree ice isn't really, WI3 though, right? I'm not great with my ice grades, but a lot of WI3 stuff I have climbed had 60 degree stuff combined with near-vertical steps. mountainproject.com/v/10595… mountainproject.com/v/10847… I don't think the Kautz is nearly that steep, is it?

It is definitely not as steep overall as what is shown in your links, but its not as bulgy either like a typical waterfall ice climb.

From Alpinist:
WI2: Consistent 60º ice with possible bulges; good protection.
WI3: Sustained 70º with possible long bulges of 80º-90º; reasonable rests and good stances for placing screws.

Based on above, I would describe it as looks like WI2 but climbs closer to WI3 if you seek out the rests. It was described similarly here: http://14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=49047&start=24 It really is not that hard, but it is definitely an ice climb for 1 pitch in the current condition and would only accept ice screws. The lower pitches were just as typically described by others, easy steps of ice and snow with lots of rest.

Kyle Tarry wrote: Thanks Allen. Good to hear that you guys did it last week, I've seen a couple trip reports that made it sound completely impossible and I had trouble believing it. Climbing into/out of a crevasse and short ice steps sound good! I don't mind the north ridge descent, it's crappy but it's not that big of a deal, I've summited that way so I'm familiar with it. If the weather behaves, I am going to take a crack at it before the end of the month. Thanks!

I too heard that a couple of parties thought it impassible. They were up there the day and two days before we and three other parties climbed the route. The down climb and out of the crevasse was not any big deal as for the most part it was névé. Where we climbed was not fresh as such I think the others parties just had bad luck finding the right spot. Who knows how long it will last. Get on it as the route is a good one.

MyFeetHurt wrote:I would describe it as looks like WI2 but climbs closer to WI3 if you seek out the rests.

Even using the grades described the steps on the Kautz are at best WI2 no way are they near WI3.

Allen Sanderson wrote:I too heard that a couple of parties thought it impassible.

Allen, thanks for the info on this last week. We climbed this yesterday and it was excellent. Route finding wasn't that bad, we had to double back a couple times but it none of them were huge.

I think if a party goes up there looking for a bunch of steep snow, they could get turned around, as we had a couple pitches of mellow ice, but if you have ice climbing experience, get after it!

Our whole crew agreed that it was a really cool climb.

Kyle Tarry wrote: Allen, thanks for the info on this last week. We climbed this yesterday and it was excellent. Route finding wasn't that bad, we had to double back a couple times but it none of them were huge. I think if a party goes up there looking for a bunch of steep snow, they could get turned around, as we had a couple pitches of mellow ice, but if you have ice climbing experience, get after it! Our whole crew agreed that it was a really cool climb.

Great that you got up it. Congrats. Sounds as though it was still in good nick. It is good adventure route.

BTW The North Ridge of Baker is pretty straight forward (we did that the week before Adams). I would put it in between the Adams Glacier and the Kautz. The first ice step can certainly be very variable and the last bit can be done by skirting around the seracs or going through them. We went through the seracs but then again a party had been up there the week before when it was warm and with unconsolidated snow so we had stair master steps to follow.