Indoor Climbing in Approach Shoes

I forgot my rock shoes at home, and decided to do my bouldering sess. in my approach shoes (LS TX-2's). I was expecting my climbing to be one or two grades lower than usual, with some problems with very small feet being a little bit harder. That turned out to be pretty on par, but I was surprised at how, I dunno, shattered I felt after my sess.

I have heard commentary about training in approach shoes being less than ideal, as it leads to sloppy footwork, but I'm coming to different conclusions. I found that when I climbed at my perceived "limit" for the gear I had on, my only choice was to make sure my feet was as spectacular as possible, and more importantly my body position seemed to play a much larger role, as I searched for stances that allowed me to more successfully top out the problem. My guess is that now when I go back to the problems with much more sensitive, and tight fitting rock shoes, I'll remember the lessons I learned in my approach shoes, and have an even easier time than ever before.

Anyone run similar experiments by training in less than perfectly ideal shoes? I've seen lot of training ideas where you only use one arm, or play a game of subtraction with holds, but I find these mostly do with utilizing your hands, and not compromising your feet.

Just interested in what people have thought. I do a lot of slaboneering and easy alpine stuff solo in just running or approach shoes, so being happy and comfortable climbing in them at a much, much higher grade that I'll ever find outside is important to me - I'm not ever going to be a hot-shit boulderer/sport climber with the size of my hammy legs. But the faster I can climb easy terrain, the funner my day is, and a lot of that has to do with confidence.

I think we've all done some of that. Routes in flip flops, loafers, whatever.

You mentioned that you'd only move off the most secure holds. That's a good thing when there are secure holds to move off of. The trouble is when there aren't any and you need to just barely balance an edge to move. Not something you'll see at the climbing wall much but pretty common on a lot of rock.

So if you're only climbing in imprecise shoes, it'll have to pretty much only looking for big holds. And in the scope of what it takes to improve, using good holds even better isn't really a priority. Use the precise shoes to learn to really get after the tiny holds, it's better in the long run.

I'm not sure any of that matters at a bouldering wall though.

When I'm training for alpine rock, I often warm up in my approach shoes, and sometimes I'll even wear a backpack. That's because I often climb the easier pitches in my approach shoes, and wear a backpack even when I'm leading. You should train in the way that mimic your end goal, so if you do a lot of soloing in your approach shoes, then training with approach shoes will definitely help. But I also want to climb hard sport routes too, so when I'm training for that, I only wear climbing shoes.

You still interested in Ellingwood Arete linking into the Crestone Traverse?

You still interested in Ellingwood Arete linking into the Crestone Traverse?

Ayup. I'll continue our PM at That Other Site.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: You mentioned that you'd only move off the most secure holds.

Ah. I'm not sure if did directly, but what I found happened was, if there was tiny chips for feet, I would attempt to find a different solution to the problem, that didn't rely on them. Sometimes this worked, sometimes not. The times it didn't work may have been because the effort of reaching a higher hold in a more inefficient way sorta tired me out, and I wasn't fresh enough to continue - this I think culminated in the feeling of being worked after the sess.

But, if I tried to utilize those tiny chips, and similar movements from not using them, I could complete the problem, as I was only using the chips to assist me that last bit.

Kinda hard to explain. It is interesting to try to use feet when you can only stand with precision on your big toe and edging is a bit floopy-feeling. (smearing of course, is aces)

I've heard of people doing this, or using really worn/sloppy "gym shoes." In my opinion, it is bullshit. Learning how to trust, and use, those tiny footholds is super important for outdoor climbing. I'd say the opposite would be much better training: use precise shoes, and use everything BUT those giant holds for feet, because chances are, you're not going to get them a lot outdoors. By purposefully targeting the smaller chips (or tiny edges on a bigger hold/volume), you're giving yourself a better simulation of outdoor footwork and better mental training. Although climbing in softer shoes does give you more of a calf workout, I think it also reinforces over-reliance on hands. I saw a pretty strong climber who bouldered in Mythos the other day...he campused everything.

If you intend to do your climbing in approach shoes, training in them makes sense. If you intend to do your climbing in climbing shoes, climbing in approach shoes might be a fun but it's not training once you have any basic climbing skills. I like fun, but that's not the same as training. Just because you're tired doesn't necessarily mean you got better or stronger.

You cannot practice precise footwork in an inherently imprecise shoe. A squishy shoe just makes you practice transferring force through your feet in a way that is worse and wrong. Jumping up and down on a beach ball doesn't make you better at jumping on solid ground.

I've heard of people doing this, or using really worn/sloppy "gym shoes."

It could also be a financial reason: fancy shoes cost $$$, and gyms tend to eat fancy shoes. Why not have a dedicated pair of OK shoes for the gym?

Although climbing in softer shoes does give you more of a calf workout, I think it also reinforces over-reliance on hands.


I think part of what I'm saying is, if you put yourself in a "I'm training, and all this is workout equipment" mindset, you short circuit over emphasizing your hands, and rather you can focus more on balance and body position. If you can use chips w/approach shoes after a while, surely you're going to be able to do them with rock shoes. Maybe another way to look at it, can you make believe rock shoes didn't exist? How would you solve the boulder problem without them? That's more of a way to remember to think creatively and perhaps I dunno - extend the use and interest of a problem that you've already done a million times. Like, "oh, it's the same problem, but now all the feet are crap". Can you compensate?


I saw a pretty strong climber who bouldered in Mythos the other day...he campused everything.


Heh, yeah - I'm not of that body type ;) It's not that my upper body is weak (although I really don't have much muscle development), it's that my lower body is very, very well-developed. I've never been one to throw strength to a problem/route. Thus my interest in how I can attain better technique through various things in the gym.

I have a friend who swears by this method.

As a result, he's a solid 5.8 crusher and not much more.

Precision=better footwork.

You felt shattered because your arms were compensating for your feet.

Anyone serious about training for hard climbing, will advocate for precise shoes for precise footwork.

I think a key point in your experience training in approach shoes is that it was done indoors. Indoors feet are inherently more positive than most real rock and it's usually very difficult to really challenge your footwork on plastic. Also, you mention that you were skipping smaller/worse footholds. Other things being equal it's generally considered to be more efficient to make more frequent and smaller movements with your feet. It sounds like using approach shoes is having the opposite effect.

Shoes are for idots

Burcheydawwwwwwg wrote: Shoes are for idots

What are "idots"? :)

The opposite of "youdots"

spoken like true morns

LongRanger wrote:I have heard commentary about training in approach shoes being less than ideal, as it leads to sloppy footwork, but I'm coming to different conclusions. I found that when I climbed at my perceived "limit" for the gear I had on, my only choice was to make sure my feet was as spectacular as possible, and more importantly my body position seemed to play a much larger role, as I searched for stances that allowed me to more successfully top out the problem. My guess is that now when I go back to the problems with much more sensitive, and tight fitting rock shoes, I'll remember the lessons I learned in my approach shoes, and have an even easier time than ever before. Anyone run similar experiments by training in less than perfectly ideal shoes?

Yeah, it forces me to concentrate on technique like core, body position, toe pressure, etc. I do it intentionally now and then to improve my technique...

Anyone serious about training for hard climbing, will advocate for precise shoes for precise footwork.

I actually covered that in my original post that I'm not serious about training for hard climbing, but instead I'm interested in being flexible in using whatever I happen to have on at the time.

Cool if people are chasing grades, that's just not really what I'm all about.

I have a friend who swears by this method.

As a result, he's a solid 5.8 crusher and not much more.

Oh, well com'on, I'm a little farther along than that.