How do Squamish grades compare to other places?

I'm considering going to Squamish for the first time in August and was wondering, how hard or soft are Squamish grades compared to other parts of the U.S.? Same question for Skaha, in case of rain at Squamish. Not trolling, just genuinely curious.

For example, how would 5.7's at Seneca/the Gunks/Red Rocks be graded at Squamish? Of course, differences in rock type and climbing style (slab, overhang, crack, etc.) can make huge differences in perceived difficulties, as can differences in personal climbing styles/preferences. But are there any general observations that hold true? I'm primarily interested in multi-pitch trad at Squamish and sport at Skaha.

Would a 5.8 leader at Seneca or the Gunks be in over their heads getting on any of the following mega classics?

• 8's: Diedre, Skywalker, Calculus Crack.
• 9's: Snake, St. Vitus' Dance, Slot Machine
• 10a's: Rock On, Smoke Bluff Connection

Any camping beta would also be much appreciated. I assume it will be very difficult to grab one of the first come, first serve sites at Stawamus if arriving on a Saturday afternoon.

Thanks!

The grades seem about on par with most places but they're grades so take them with a grain of salt. My advice, find a couple test pieces and come to your own conclusion.

Camping: You could probably snag a spot at the campground or just crash in the parking lot.

Whatever you decide to do, you won't be disappointed. Squamish is awesome.

IMHO Squamish ratings have always felt a bit soft compared to popular climbing areas in California, Wyoming, Colorado etc.

Thanks for the input! I noticed you guys all climb significantly harder than me, but I might give it a go anyway. Additional insights are welcomed, especially from East Coast folks who have made it out to Squamish.

Robbie Brown wrote:Vacation grades!

Winner

I am a New England climber (Rumney, Gunks, Cathedral) who went to Squamish last year. I climbed Diedre, Slot Machine, and Rock On, from your list.

It's tough to compare grades from different rock types/styles, but in general I'd agree that Squamish grades are "vacation grades" and half a notch to a notch easier than the Gunks and Red Rocks. The climbs on the Chief tend to be grippy low-angle granite with bomber cracks. Diedre would be like a 5.7 in Yosemite or New Hampshire (gosh, hard to think it's the same grade as the Nutcracker...).

What have you climbed at the Gunks? Maybe I can make a route for route comparison.

We camped at the Chief campground and it was awesome. Highly recommend. We came in on a Saturday and ended up camping across the street in the field at the Klahanie campground one night and then Sunday morning grabbed some spots that some weekenders were leaving.

I think that Squamish grades are pretty fair, and maybe a little soft. I would suggest going to Smoke Bluffs first to get a feel for the rock on single pitch. One thing to consider is most of the routes you listed have only a couple moves at the highest grade. One classic I would add to your Squamish list is Star Chek. It is a 5.9 multi-pitch sport climb and it is just amazing.

For camping, I just slept in my car on the Mamquam Forest Road (49.690561, -123.140461). Sleeping in your car in the parking lot *could* get you into trouble, but the forest road is all good. And if you are arriving on the weekend, beware of the crowds. I generally took the weekends as rest days to avoid the craziness.

I am not sure I would suggest Skaha for when it rains. One, Skaha is not right next door. Two, it will be pretty hot that time of year. Three, the rock in Squamish dries relatively fast. When I was there in the rain, I went hiking in the Garibaldi Provincial Park and would go back to climbing the next day. But all that being said, Skaha is great. I really enjoyed the rock there. I think the grades there feel pretty right. My biggest problem was finding climbing partners that could take the heat. (Canadians, eh?)

Have fun in BC! The place is amazing.

M Bageant wrote: ...What have you climbed at the Gunks? Maybe I can make a route for route comparison.

Thanks, M Bageant. At the Gunks, I've done the classic 6's, Something Interesting, and a few 8's: City Lights (8-?), Son of Easy O, Double Crack, and CCK. I find overhung juggy routes and cracks to be easier than slabs/friction/crimpy routes, but my climbing partners for the Squamish trip would have the opposite/complementary strengths/weaknesses.

Thanks, Seth! We'll check out Smoke Bluffs first and add Star Chek to our to do list. If the rain doesn't last multiple days, we'll probably stay near Squamish and go hiking. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

FanZ wrote: At the Gunks, I've done the classic 6's, Something Interesting, and a few 8's: City Lights (8-?), Son of Easy O, Double Crack, and CCK. I find overhung juggy routes and cracks to be easier than slabs/friction/crimpy routes...

To me, your hitlist seems like a good selection. It's hard to compare because style is so individual, but personally I like the same styles as you, so maybe my experience is helpful. Rock On is a good choice and plays to your strengths but is harder than all of the Gunks climbs you listed. Diedre felt vaguely about as hard as Something Interesting but totally different in style. Slot Machine was a bit harder than Double Crack.

As pointed out above, the cruxes are short on most of the routes you picked!

Thanks! That's great to know.

Dude the granite in Squamish feel like superglue compared to the likes of Seneca!

Dan Cooksey wrote:Dude the granite in Squamish feel like superglue compared to the likes of Seneca!

Awesome, Dan. Can't wait.

moderates are softer than my teddy beah ... not all of em, but a decent amount of em

if you want "old school" climbs, theres several around that will give most folk a good thrashing for the grade ... but those are the exception not the rule

take a day or two to learn how to jam continuous cracks and climb friction slab ... and youll be just fine

a hint on those routes ... climb em on weekdays and even then theyll be gongshows in aug ... start in the afternoon/evening, and carry up a small framing hammer ...

ive bootied 4 cams and countless nuts on calculus alone over the past few years doing evening runs

just dont be surprised if some old geezah solos past u

and whoever rated star check "5.9" wuz smoking ganja at the time ... in the rockies it would be no harder than 5.6/7 or so, and thats just one move ... most of it can be said to be very low 5th class if no 4th

;)

Diedre is definitely on the softer side, whereas the second pitch of Skywalker at the same grade as Diedre was definitely tougher, but I attribute that to it just being awkward. I haven't climbed anything that hard in Squam but softer moderates and spot on otherwise is sort of the general consensus among people I've talked to.

I will bump this and ask how does Moab area and also Red Rocks compare to Squamish? If I can climb 5.9 in Squamish, what should I be looking at for a max in Red Rocks, Indian Creek? 

Stever wrote:

I will bump this and ask how does Moab area and also Red Rocks compare to Squamish? If I can climb 5.9 in Squamish, what should I be looking at for a max in Red Rocks, Indian Creek? 

So you have two completely different styles of rock.  Moab with the soft sandstone is a little more forgiving on the skin.  Don't expect many features outside of the splitter cracks themselves. Moab is full on jamming. If you are well versed in crack climbing you should find a straightforward 5.11 crack in Moab (like Gun smoke) to feel easier than Squamish.  This is just my opinion. Also there are not many 5.9s in Moab or the creek.  The climbs are typically 5.10+.  Red rocks is less crack climbing and more face climbing.  If you climb 5.9 in Squamish you should be comfortable on 5.9 in Red Rocks, just know that again it's like face climbing with small slots for protection instead of splitter cracks. 

Dan and John, thanks for the detailed and informative responses!

Sounds like I'm not quite up to the 5.10+ standard of the Creek so I will check out Red rock instead this year. I'm interested to see what face climbing with cracks is like compared to slab and crack in Squamish!

Well, to join the party, are sport grades in Red Rock a lot different from trad grades there?

I visited when I could only climb on bolts, and I found grades in Red Rock to be average or soft (similar to areas like Owens River Gorge or e.g. Vantage in WA - nothing like Yosemite), at least in mid 10s which is what I was climbing then.

Now that I am getting into trad I was considering going to Red Rock for those soft grades (and soft rock ;)), but the above seems to imply that Red Rock grades are similar to Gunks grades that are known to be tough. So that makes me wonder...

Why visit an area to chase soft grades? These climbing areas being discussed are stacked - find something that inspires you, or looks fun, and try. 

Compared to the granite crack and slab climbing in Washington (especially Index...!), the grades in Squamish feel easier.