Black Diamond Quickdraw's

The pressure is dropping and a shit storm is rolling in

How to impress crag ho's - climb 5.12 sport.

The only people that care about your trad climbing are other dudes :(

FrankPS wrote: Setting the "stealing" issue aside, why would you leave all these draws, including anchor draws? Barring an accident, isn't the project completed when you reach the anchor? And I won't be leading 10d, but I'm genuinely curious.

When people work routes, they often do it in blocks - learn the moves to complete a block, do that for all the blocks, then start linking them together. This can easily mean leaving draws on the anchors. Another reason would be that the climber hasn't completed the red-point (ground to anchors without falls) of the route yet, despite reaching the anchors.

Again, a poor use of logic. Not all opinions are equally valid, and in this case experience dictates. Your view sounds perilously close to "I'm no scientist, but I don't believe in global warming". You see, in the absence of knowledge, data, and experience, your opinion means very, very little. Look at these forums as a place for you to develop a sense of the community standard. In this particular instance, you are demonstrably incorrect. My citing of your experience was done not to demean you as an individual, but to draw this conclusion. I'm not asking you to start climbing sport, and use project tactics, simply to understand them and accept them as the overwhelming majority of the climbing community does. There are plenty of areas in my life and profession where my knowledge is insufficient to have an opinion, and I strive to withhold them until that insufficiency is rectified.

Seth.. your clearly just a clay cartoon character.. you don't have the rights of a regular citizen.. I looked at your MP profile picture.. I know what I'm talking about.. Soo I think you opinions are in face irrelevant.. I mean what's next are we gunna let the abominable snowman tell us what to do.. or Rudolph?

Seth Jones appears to be a 5.8 climber from Illinois. Not sure there's any point in arguing with him - he clearly knows what he's talking about.

PaulyK: If you didn't offer to get them back to their owner, it would be a different story, but what you did was totally fine and not stealing.

Seth Jones wrote: Don't worry, you won't see me at any of your draw-littered crags.

But we're sure to find you at the draw littered forum topics..... Odd, No?

Next up, turning this into an East vs West Coast ethics shitstorm...can't wait! Where's Heckler when we need him?!

Marc801 wrote: When people work routes, they often do it in blocks - learn the moves to complete a block, do that for all the blocks, then start linking them together. This can easily mean leaving draws on the anchors. Another reason would be that the climber hasn't completed the red-point (ground to anchors without falls) of the route yet, despite reaching the anchors.

Thanks, Marc. That makes sense. Sort of.

Josh Janes wrote: PaulyK: If you didn't offer to get them back to their owner, it would be a different story, but what you did was totally fine and not stealing.

I don't buy this. If he had taken the draws and left them with the rangers as a lost and found item I'd buy it, but posting it up on MP is in no way a guarantee that the person who left the draws will ever see his post or even know that he should look here (that's if he even has any idea that mountainproject even exists).

It's lame that the OP took obvious project draws. It's also lame that another noob is spouting off cluelessly and out of his element.

BUT, why is nobody discussing how lame it is for someone to leave project draws on a 5.10, if this is the case?

There's a trickle-down effect in which people use sport projecting tactics like pre-hung draws, tickmarks, and excessive hangdogging on easier and easier terrain. Now, I know, we all have different abilities and levels– one person's megaproject is another person's warmup; there are some hard 11s that I really like to have prehung draws on, and Adam Ondra can onsight 5.14c while hanging his own draws.

But geeez, eventually we need to draw the line and say, "stop projecting 5.10 and build your basic onsight level."

WOW!!
I did not expect all this banter and completely different opinions and insults. So the entire route did NOT have qd's on it, only the top 3 through the crux and 2 on the anchor. In speaking with a couple of friends here at the park yesterday we agreed that with how NEW the qd's were that were left behind it was probably a new outdoor climber who made it to the anchor expecting rings or quick shuts then did not know to transition into rappel using just the eye bolts, they probably tried to TR the route but somehow could not get through the crux again. Just speculating. In asking around, it's definitely not a local experienced climber who left brand new BD qd's on this 5.10 route. FrankPS made a great point (thank you), this climber made it to the anchors and completed the route - why leave brand new gear??
Anyway Ive been climbing for about 12 years and where I come from back in NY I had never, ever experienced or seen people leaving gear behind; basically $$$$$$$ on the wall - back home this stuff is gone and lost forever if left on any wall. In climbing at Smith now for about 3 years I hear my friends tell me that they are leaving their qd's on routes (usually 5.12 and above from what I saw) - the first time I heard this I was like WHAT?! And asked wait why would you do that?? Sure enough qd's are being stolen off routes here. I guess it's normal behavior to leave your qd's on routes that you are projecting at sport crags. Personally I would never do that, not cause of litter but man gear costs a lot of money and obviously not everyone is honest.
I reached out to find a belayer yesterday morning and went out to the park with the sole intention of putting the qd's back on the route and was told that they would go up after me and take them down. So that being said my next step is to go to the Ranger Station and find out if anyone has been looking for them; I'm telling all my climbing buddies and locals that I have these quickdraw's and to keep their eyes and ears open to anyone who is looking for them. I also posted it on Facebook; So the person who left these behind doesn't JUST have to know about Mountain Project - I am reaching out in many different ways.
Anyway, thanks for your opinions but I will probably never post on a forum again. Climb safe, climb hard, but most of all have fun.
Peace out.

Pauly,

As you have learned, asking a question on these forums will get you answers, opinions and insults. Even dumbasses calling you a thief. For those reasons, I won't post a question such as "How do I...?"

You sound like an experienced, conscientious climber that tried to do the right thing and got pilloried for it by a few people.

You'll probably get a few responses now like, "Get thicker skin" or "toughen up," but there's a risk in asking a question on the anonymous "tubes of the Internet"!

Have fun.

Good job actually trying to get the draws back in multiple ways. I would guess that you could leave them with a ranger to be put in a lost and found, but I'm not 100% sure on that. As far as the fact that the draws were only left up through the crux and on the anchors, this is actually a fairly common method to help dissuade people (especially non-climbers) from stealing them. If all the lower bolts are on easy terrain where clipping is simple, it can make sense to only leave the project draws on the upper bolts and the anchor.