Is using a grigri for PAS safe?

Hi all

I want an adjustable tether for anchoring at the top of sports climbs.

Yesterday it seemed every route we did had awkward uneven anchors (all eye bolts, no chains) so I either spent ages mucking about with different length draws and runners or just maintained tension on one side and allowed slack in the other. Not ideal.

My climbing partner uses a Pretzl traxion but seeing as I already have a grigri which I don't use, why not use that?

I've already tried it on my woodie and it seems to work really well.

So apart from the weight penalty, any reason why not to use it?

Edit: Just to add. I plan to use it on a separate tether, not go direct in to the main climbing rope.

Shane1234 wrote:Hi all I want an adjustable tether for anchoring at the top of sports climbs. Yesterday it seemed every route we did had awkward uneven anchors (all eye bolts, no chains) so I either spent ages mucking about with different length draws and runners or just maintained tension on one side and allowed slack in the other. Not ideal. My climbing partner uses a Pretzl traxion but seeing as I already have a grigri which I don't use, why not use that? I've already tried it on my woodie and it seems to work really well. So apart from the weight penalty, any reason why not to use it? Edit: Just to add. I plan to use it on a separate tether, not go direct in to the main climbing rope.

sounds great.

Firestone wrote:What if you tied in direct with the rope and before you weight it you throw your grigri on? Just a thought

Probably a dumb question but how do you tie in direct with the rope using a grigri?

Either way, as the gri-gri is on the climbing rope, Won't at some point i have to undo the grigri so I can tread the rope though the anchors and then re-tie in. During that process I'm only anchored by my back up tether so no redundancy?

Have you tried a Purcell Prusik? It's easy to adjust and doesn't weigh much at all.

it looks like a mechanism to lock the device from accidentally disengaging would be the only thing I would see as inconvenient. how long of a cord are you going to use?

What's the situation here ? Single pitch sport routes ? Are you anchoring at the top of the pitch and then bringing up your second? Belaying them off your harness? Are you just looking be more comfortable while you hang out on top?

I'm a big fan of clove hitches . Easily adjustable and no extra gear as you're just using the climbing rope. Plus a clove hitch is a little more dynamic than slings or quick draws . It's good to know several different options for anchoring yourself regardless of what your preferred method is ....

Mitchell E wrote:Have you tried a Purcell Prusik? It's easy to adjust and doesn't weigh much at all.

+1

Great way to tether. They're great for hanging belays. When you use it along with your clove you can adjust your stance easily without unclipping from anchor.

Shane1234 wrote:. My climbing partner uses a Pretzl traxion but seeing as I already have a grigri which I don't use, why not use that?

Because You're. Gonna. Die..

I hate to sound like a broken record but why not just use the climbing rope? Its already attached to you. It takes all of 5seconds through on a clove and it is completely adjustable.

Otherwise knotted fat nylon slings work for me. But most of the time it is the rope.

Ok, can someone please explain how using the climbing rope works? At some point I'm going to have to untie it anyway so I can thread it through the eye bolts to set up for my rappel down correct? So when I've untied it and setting up doesn't that mean I'm only hanging by one bolt so no redundancy? Or have I totally missed something here???

Situation is simple single pitch sports climbs. Just trying to get a more comfortable and safer stance while I set up for my rappel down.

I already use a Purcell Prusik which is permanently attached to my tie in loops.

What I'd like to have is another adjustable tether going to the other bolt. I could use another purcell prusik but I'd prefer to use a different method so I'm not relying on the same method on both bolts.

Afaik, my partner's traxion can't automatically disengage but on the flipside, it's not as easily adjustable like a grigri. After 30mins of mucking about on my woodie it was quite natural to keep it weighted so I'm not too concerned about it disengaging. A 6' rope gave me about 3 1/2' range. I lost a fair bit to the knots and tags at either end.

On my woodie I did try out munters and clove hitches. Both have pros and cons. The munter allows adjustment while loaded but isn't self tightening. The clove self tightens but can't be adjusted while weighted, similar to the purcell prusik actually. Obviously a grigri can do both simultaneously which is the attraction.

Shane1234 wrote: Yesterday it seemed every route we did had awkward uneven anchors (all eye bolts, no chains) so I either spent ages mucking about with different length draws and runners or just maintained tension on one side and allowed slack in the other. Not ideal.

I think you're making this much more complicated than it needs to be. You're on the anchors for 30 seconds to a minute and you're just hanging there. This isn't a hanging belay and you're not catching falls on it, you're just cleaning the anchor. Clip in with draws or slings or whatever you have (it doesn't matter if they are uneven and not perfectly equalized) and clean the anchor.

Also, if the anchors allow it learn how to clean by pulling through a bite and tying a fig 8 to a locker. You're technically never untied from the rope doing this and it's faster.

Shane12345 wrote: while I set up for my rappel down.

There are pros and cons to each, but It is OK to lower and if you progress to harder/steeper climbs this will probably become your default way to get down.

Shane12345 wrote:I already use a Purcell Prusik which is permanently attached to my tie in loops. What I'd like to have is another adjustable tether going to the other bolt. I could use another purcell prusik but I'd prefer to use a different method so I'm not relying on the same method on both bolts.

If you want to keep using the purcell prusik you could use a sling on the other side and adjust the prusik until they are even. It depends on how offset the bolts are, but you should be able to get something suitable if only one attachment is adjustable. There's not really a good reason to use a different method of attachment for each point, it's more important that anchors are redundant.

Shane12345 wrote:...Just trying to get a more comfortable and safer stance while I set up for my rappel down.

The default for single-pitch sport climbs is lowering, NOT rappeling. Check out this recent statement by the AAC.

americanalpineclub.org/reso…

Although AAC has recently changed their stance, lowering most definitely isn't the "default". It's very area/climb specific.

Brian L. wrote:Although AAC has recently changed their stance, lowering most definitely isn't the "default". It's very area/climb specific.

Evidence, please.

At which specific single-pitch sport areas is rappelling the norm?

And what do you mean by the AAC "changing" their stance? Did they ever issue statements that were specifically anti-lowering for single-pitch sport areas?

Pnelson wrote: The default for single-pitch sport climbs is lowering, NOT rappeling. Check out this recent statement by the AAC. americanalpineclub.org/reso…

I find the comments on that post just as ill-informed and confused as many of the comments here when lowering vs rappelling comes up yet again.

Shane12345 wrote:So when I've untied it and setting up doesn't that mean I'm only hanging by one bolt so no redundancy? Or have I totally missed something here???

Yeah.
Clipping in to the second bolt.

Pnelson wrote: Evidence, please. At which specific single-pitch sport areas is rappelling the norm? And what do you mean by the AAC "changing" their stance? Did they ever issue statements that were specifically anti-lowering for single-pitch sport areas?

AAC only recently made this endorsement. I believe, but someone correct me if I'm wrong, they previously supported individual climbing area ethics. Aka they didn't have a hard stance one way or another.

As for a climbing area that endorses rappelling: I give you Muir Valley at RRG: muirvalley.com/practice-anc…

Brian L. wrote: AAC only recently made this endorsement. I believe, but someone correct me if I'm wrong, they previously supported individual climbing area ethics. Aka they didn't have a hard stance one way or another. As for a climbing area that endorses rappelling: I give you Muir Valley at RRG: muirvalley.com/practice-anc…

Yeah, I don't really see them lacking a hard stance as really "changing" their position.

Good point with Muir Valley, though; I did not know they had taken an official stance.

I still do not see any practical reason to take the single most deadly aspect of multipitch climbing, and contrive it to be part of single pitch sport.

""Situation is simple single pitch sports climbs. Just trying to get a more comfortable and safer stance while I set up for my rappel down.""

You are over thinking this..... its quite simple.

One sling to one bolt, one to the other.... pull up some cord, tie it off to you so you dont drop it, untie from your harness, thread the rope ... tie back into your harness, untie anti-drop knot.... yell take, pull up and feel the rope holding you .... unclip the shortest sling, feel the rope holding you... undo the last sling... say lower me...

It should take less time than it took me to type this out.... don't be an idiot, rap only if the gear is meant to be rapped off of...like some of the stations at Cochise or if it is the "local custom" to rap.

Either way, it's a new position and doesn't represent a universal "default".

But let's not turn this into a discussion about rap vs lower. Plenty of those already.