Free Soloing Ethics?

that guy named seb wrote: Stop trying to make this into a sexist comment, bitchy is a universal insult just like calling someone a cunt.

Bullshit.

that guy named seb wrote: Stop trying to make this into a sexist comment, bitchy is a universal insult just like calling someone a cunt.

I had the same thought - "Oh, someone is finally making this a sexist issue." (yawn) And I'm not referring to the term, "bitchy," but the idea that because the soloist was a woman, the man treated her differently.

Merlin wrote: Bullshit.

you clearly don't insult people enough.

Ball wrote: Yes, this would be proper. They could start by creating a special EU commission on free soloing with the ultimate aim on creating a free solo license. This would undoubtedly make this process as efficient as displaying your license along with two forms of ID. Several well-funded EU quangos should then be created to collect surveys on the ethno-cultiral impacts, as well as carbon emissions. With the revenue collected from licensure (€800/yr seems fair considering the savings on ropes) this would only cost EU taxpayers about €2.3 billion/yr, which is a good insurance policy against lawless soloing. GDP would also go up substantially. Really no down-sides. I'm surprised nobody has thought of this earlier.

Finally some common sense on this thread.

(And funny too-thanks.)

Edited because I'm at 14 posts today and about to get suppressed...

Stagg, I agree folks should be polite. But I can't see asking a soloist to wait around while I get ready. If I'm already en route, we should come to an agreement about how best to arrange a pass.

If it's another roped party, the plot thickens, as many of those who claim to be fast (and therefor should go first) aren't, and I don't much want to be stuck behind them if they have exagerated their ability.

Mark E Dixon wrote:Seriously, would folks really expect a soloist to wait while they finish gearing up? I mean, the soloist will be finished with the pitch before you are even tied in. And it's Lumpy, not the North Face of the Eiger. Not exactly raked by rockfall. And even if it was the NF of the Eiger, I'm pretty sure the Euros aren't going to be patiently waiting in line while you adjust your quadruplette. They are going to be climbing right over top of you, your rope and your delicate feelings.

So... because you are faster, somehow now you don't have to be polite...

William Thiry wrote:Fact is the free-soloing gal could have nicely asked if it would be OK if she climbed first while the roped team was getting ready. Most reasonable climbers would have no problem with that in most situations. The OP basically conceded this to her with his pro-active ice-breaking comment. She and a few others didn't like the comment, but since she was initially not communicating the OP had no idea whether she wanted to pass or not so at least he had the good sense to start some communication. He could have offered her the chance to go first, or simply asked her intentions. She could have asked nicely to go first or announced that she was willing to wait. Her lack of communication, and her bitchy response, are less impressive than the OP's initial comment to her.

A nice summation. Just because you're soloing doesn't entitle one to bust some 'tude. Also, as someone mentioned thread, anyone intending to solo who gets flustered by a falling comment should not be soloing. If you haven't already convinced yourself that you can competently solo a route, or downclimb it if need be, should not be soloing it. Period. (BTW, we've all known soloist who have died).

Stagg54 wrote: So... because you are faster, somehow now you don't have to be polite...

Should I ask permission to use the passing lane, too? I thought it was just understood (although, not in America apparently).

Faster parties pass slower ones. This isn't even a climbing issue; just common sense.

Ball wrote: Should I ask permission to use the passing lane, too? I thought it was just understood (although, not in America apparently). Faster parties pass slower ones. This isn't even a climbing issue; just common sense.

Cool. According to Ball there are passing lanes on climbing routes now. Are there signs that say: "Slower parties stay right"?

Ball wrote: Should I ask permission to use the passing lane, too? I thought it was just understood (although, not in America apparently). Faster parties pass slower ones. This isn't even a climbing issue; just common sense.

Do you use a turn signal when passing? It may not be asking for permission but besides being the law in many states, it is common courtesy and common sense to state your intentions. Kinda like getting to the base of climb and wanting to pass a party gearing up. Common courtesy and common sense to state your intentions.

Ball wrote: Should I ask permission to use the passing lane, too? I thought it was just understood (although, not in America apparently). Faster parties pass slower ones. This isn't even a climbing issue; just common sense.

gone are the days of old when the hiker let the runner pass and the runner let the biker pass. we now live in a society where anarchy rules. No longer are we required to avoid impeding other people, now we staunchly believe that you should stop being rude and wait your turn.

Andrew Wood wrote: gone are the days of old when the hiker let the runner pass and the runner let the biker pass. we now live in a society where anarchy rules. No longer are we required to avoid impeding other people, now we staunchly believe that you should stop being rude and wait your turn.

Rudeness is in the eye of the offended.

In all fairness Andrew we also live in a world where anyone can buy a mountain bike and people often do. And when these people want to look cool on a mountain bike they head to the local trail, and I, as a runner, get tired of leap frogging with said extreme athletes and they have to earn their pass, because otherwise they can wait 3 minutes at the last trail junction and I would never see these people again. If you are frequently having this problem maybe just keep spinning rather than stopping at the trail sign to talk about how sick that line was, brah.

Did I miss the part where the OP told us if the woman ended up climbing on their 5.7 or not?

that guy named seb wrote: Stop trying to make this into a sexist comment, bitchy is a universal insult just like calling someone a cunt.

Cunt can be a complement in our cultures lad :)

Ball wrote:Faster parties pass slower ones. This isn't even a climbing issue; just common sense.

At least 90% of the time soloists will be faster than a roped party. Yes, both parties in the OP displayed less than perfect behavior. Life happens.

"Essentially, I felt that this womans response was not only inappropriate, but it was simply selfish in the context of the response of itself and also the approach she had to the situation."
This doesn't mean the woman was being selfish. And yes, the OP definitely sounds like a bunch of whining. And if you're that worried that the other climber is going to fall on you, you're free to climb a different route.

Ball wrote: Rudeness is in the eye of the offended.

retardation is not an emotion

Andrew Wood wrote: retardation is not an emotion

Says you!

I remember a fun thing to do when tandem soloing around with a buddy of mine was if you had some good handjams and you were the upper climber you'd cut your feet loose and yell "OH FUCK!" Good times.

Squeak wrote: Cunt can be a complement in our cultures lad :)

In my scale of people everyones a cunt, just varying degrees of cunt, so you can be a best cunt (BC), good cunt (GC), bad cunt (BC) BC depends on the tone of your voice so it only really works in person if you shorten in.

Quite simple. She's a jerk. First person there should make the decision. I don't want someone soloing above me when I am on a climb you know, because it is dangerous. Only an ass clown would show up to Lumpy with that attitude and expect you to defer to them just because they are soloing. (And boohoo, because you said the obvious that she could fall you) I solo but I don't cut in line, cause I am not a dick and I care about others experiences too. Oh, and you soloist out there who think you can cut ahead? Give it a try and we'll see how that turns out for you.

HughC wrote:Quite simple. She's a jerk. First person there should make the decision. I don't want someone soloing above me when I am on a climb you know, because it is dangerous. Only an ass clown would show up to Lumpy with that attitude and expect you to defer to them just because they are soloing. (And boohoo, because you said the obvious that she could fall you) I solo but I don't cut in line, cause I am not a dick and I care about others experiences too. Oh, and you soloist out there who think you can cut ahead? Give it a try and we'll see how that turns out for you.

Oh god, your the type of cunt who wouldn't let a party cut in front of you despite being you being the slower party.