Free Soloing Ethics?

cyclestupor wrote: Yikes. While the OP's response may have been a bit insensitive. It's not like the OP was trying to kill the soloist. Why so many negative responses (not just ElGringo)? I thought soloists are supposed to be hard and unshakable (like Honnold). The soloist walked up to the base of a route which was already occupied by the OP's group, and didn't say a single word. Isn't that a bit rude/insensitive too? Then she jumped down the OP's throat for uttering a frequent but insensitive/ignorant phrase. If you are a soloist who doesn't ever want to hear the words "don't fall", here is some procedures to follow in order of least risky to most risky... 1) Only solo at 2AM on a weekday, and go here mountainproject.com/v/perch… 2) Stay at least 100yds away from anyone. 3) Ear plugs. Rude, but safe. 4) Try breaking the ice. Ask if you can cut in. Tell them unambiguously that you are soloing. 5) Pass out pamphlets that say something like. "I am going to solo this route. DON'T TALK TO ME or I will DIE!!! Oh, and I'm cuttin' in... Deal!". My personal favorite 6) Cut in line on a popular route, then shoe up with out saying anything. Note: Very risky option, makes others nervous, irritated, and more likely to say stupid shit. It seems to me that if a little comment like "don't fall" is enough to knock you out of your "headspace" while you are on the ground, how easy will you loose you cool when you are 200' up? What if the wind gusts, or there is a f*!$in bee (OMG)? Your "headspace" will be totally f*$!d. An important part of soling is having the ability to control your head, and suppress your fears; not to just put yourself in some kind of mellow trans where you forget to be afraid (until someone or something reminds you).

How is my response negative? By saying the OP got off easy from her response? He should absolutely stay at home or in the gym until he understands wilderness and open space. The soloist has every goddamn right to climb the route just like the rest of us. She also doesn't have to say one goddamn syllable to anyone around her, whether on route or not. She can and probably will pass you and other parties and her choice of recreating is as limitless or limited as yours or mine are at the same venue. Don't be a fuck in the outdoors to others that are going for a similar (outdoor) experience. She nor anyone else has or needs to justify being outside and perusing activities that are within the legal confines of the given area. We only know the OP's side to this story and with that said he got off lightly.

We need to quit talking about "headspace" and understand that you either always chose a rope or you get why you leave the rope at home. Shit happens, rocks fall, wind blows, birds shit, cars crash and we will eventually all die. If you are that worried about climbing and climbers pursuing their own form of climbing then maybe the whole deal isn't for you. Maybe consider knitting or watching movies near the a/c unit.

Ball wrote:The last thing you should do to someone getting psyched to solo a route is to strike up a conversation. WTF were you thinking? You're more likely to be hit by a rock dislodged by roped-up climbers than a free soloist. This is the real world, not Vertical Limit or Mission Impossible. When was the last time a free soloist fell on someone? Oh, what's that? Never? Just STFU and stop projecting your fears. MAJOR party foul on your part. I once passed 10 people free soloing a route. MY only major concern is not being hit by falling cams and making sure I didn't surprise anyone I was approaching. YOUR major concern should be not being a nuisance to others.

Wow. Bummer for you that you wrote that where everyone could see it. Careful, people will end up thinking you're an inconsiderate know-nothing.

Opening poster is strangely mute on this thread. So too is the first person that said something to the soloist that day.

My primary crags are typically not solid enough to attract soloists, but I do remember being in the smoke bluffs and watching some ropeless climbers get stuck downclimbing in a shower. I've also seen a man soloing behind his very young child as the child bawled on top rope. Both times I've walked around a corner and not said anything.

I believe if you are going to solo in a public area, you should know what the hell your doing, but the OP didn't really give the woman a chance to prove that.

J. Albers wrote: Wow. Bummer for you that you wrote that where everyone could see it. Careful, people will end up thinking you're an inconsiderate know-nothing.

Bummer for you most people can spot a non-argument and a holier-than-thou attitude. You probably took a university course on climbing ethics while studying Keynesianism.

Ball wrote: Bummer for you most people can spot a non-argument and a holier-than-thou attitude. You probably took a university course on climbing ethics while studying Keynesianism.

(laughing) You just made my point. Well done hombre, keep firing!!

Jon Rhoderick wrote:I believe if you are going to solo in a public area, you should know what the hell your doing, but the OP didn't really give the woman a chance to prove that.

1) Why should she have to prove anything? Who is he, the climbing ranger? The safety brigade? The Sultan of sensibility? Oh wait, he's just some guy.

2) Who the hell are you to judge whether she knew what she was doing?

Oh, and she probably did know why she was doing. You know how I know this? She was putting on shoes and soloing a route. She didn't ask for beta or conditions. She didn't act like she didn't know where the route was or that she was high on methamphetamines.

What's next, should we interrogate anyone getting into a car on their driving experience?

The psychology behind these posts is chilling. Why are you people even climbing? Maybe we should have security cameras and pot-sniffing machines every 100ft on the route to make sure everyone is following the rules. Maybe we should have signs at every junction on the route to make sure nobody gets lost and climbing licensing issued by public unions or some other body who can't possibly be liable for anything bad that might happen. Maybe we should just ban lead climbing completely or make sure nobody is allowed near the rocks. Someone might get hurt!

Free soloing isn't a decision made by committee. I thought this would have been obvious, but apparently I'm dealing with morons.

You want to free solo ahead of a route I can barely lead? Go ahead! Live life! Crush it!

Ball wrote: You want to free solo ahead of a route I can barely lead? Go ahead! Live life! Crush it!

Jebus. You are the dense one here homey. Most folks aren't saying anything about telling someone not to solo. But you're f'ing right, if someone does something that puts me in danger, then yeah, I get to speak up and say "hey douchenozzle, don't do that thing you're doing that is going to get me or my partner hurt". And that applies to anything climbing related, not just soloing. If I'm on lead on ice and some bozo catches me and then starts climbing directly above me, then for obvious reasons, I will be pissed and tell said moron not to do what they are doing. There are a nearly infinite number of examples like this where someone is completely entitled to stick up for their own safety and well-being. You don't like that? Tough sh*t. And if you can't understand that perspective, well then I guess you are either a narcissist or an idiot (or both).

Ball wrote: The psychology behind these posts is chilling.

LULz. Overexaggerate much?

Fuck yer experience and expectations, all y'all. Climbing used to be an opportunity to act the fool and take risks, seems like now that many have some weird expectation of climbing out of a douchy pataface catalog, lol! I'll be the one soloing and listening to dubstep on a boombox while smoking lung darts, farting, and cussing. Maybe I'll end up with the crag to myself.

advice

As a person who loves soloing i gotta say, dick move, you wouldn't assume a party was incompetant if they were climbing roped but you assume they are incompetant when they make the decision to solo.

As a person who loves soloing i gotta say, she seems way too sensitive. I mean come on, are you that on the edge of falling off that a simple comment like that is going to throw you out of your head game. If so back off. You people are ridiculous. Get all worked up over a little comment. Soloing generally requires a smooth head, not getting your panties in a bunch because someone said something you deem not appropriate.

lol, YOU MUST TALK TO ME IF YOU WANT TO ROCK CLIMB!!!

Woah, hopefully the OP has learned a lot from this encounter and this thread. Consider this: she saw a team at the base racking up, ran up there to ensure she could pass at a safe spot (while you are still on the ground). She was out of breath from running at altitude, so she put her shoes on while catching her breath. She was going to wait until her breathing was under control and that she was 100% psyched to climb the route, before asking to pass. Then, once she was ready, she says hello and asks to pass.

You didn'tgive her an option. I agree with an early response that it is highly unlikely that you solo 5th class terrain. The way you acted and what you said was unacceptable.

What if a random person walked up to you as you were unlocking your car and in a condescending tone said "I hope you don't crash your car." How would you react?

As far as ethics... You are entitled to nothing. The other party is also entitled to nothing. Some people are assholes, don't be an asshole.

I think I have actually said the same thing as the OP as we were being passed...

but I said it humorously - & graciously allowed the pass immediately.

What kind of mountaineers troll do we have here?

MisterE wrote:What kind of mountaineers troll do we have here?

Tools.

JeffL wrote:Woah, hopefully the OP has learned a lot from this encounter and this thread. Consider this: she saw a team at the base racking up, ran up there to ensure she could pass at a safe spot (while you are still on the ground). She was out of breath from running at altitude, so she put her shoes on while catching her breath. She was going to wait until her breathing was under control and that she was 100% psyched to climb the route, before asking to pass. Then, once she was ready, she says hello and asks to pass. You didn'tgive her an option. I agree with an early response that it is highly unlikely that you solo 5th class terrain. The way you acted and what you said was unacceptable. What if a random person walked up to you as you were unlocking your car and in a condescending tone said "I hope you don't crash your car." How would you react? As far as ethics... You are entitled to nothing. The other party is also entitled to nothing. Some people are assholes, don't be an asshole.

Perhaps you are right in this situation. Maybe he didn't give her time to ask.

However I've on several occasions had free soloists pass me without asking permission. I view that as rather rude. General good manners suggest that you ask, even if it is simply a formality.

If someone is climbing above you roped or not, that is a potential increase in hazard to you.

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

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I told you someone would get gangsta up in here!!

Bill Kirby wrote: I don't see where you did anything wrong if you did not intentionally mean to mess her head. The usual peanut gallery here whining as usual and calling for your head is lame. Next some jackass will say they'll beat you up or shoot you. Give the OP a break already! I've experienced people fucking with me on purpose more than once both freesoloing and roped up. I had a woman tell me that beginners shouldn't solo. Another asked me if I was going to place anything because I was scarring her. I guess cause I'm fat and my tools were new. I had a guide tell stories of all the climbers he knew that got hurt on this route as I was racking up. I placed three screws in 180 feet just to show that guide he didn't get in my head. If anything people that say dumb shit make me more determined and focused.

Ha! Classic blow up. I didn’t know soloists were so sensitive. Could this insecurity possibly be what draws them to prove themselves by free soloing in the first place? Hmm.. tell me again about your father.