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Free Soloing Ethics?

Original Post
Seth Hogan · · Frisco, Co · Joined May 2011 · Points: 160

Recently, my friend and I were gearing up for a classic 5.7 at Lumpy Ridge in Estes Park, this is early in the season which means that all other areas are closed to climbing due to raptor chicks still nesting, and on a weekend. There are limited routes at this time, and this one is a well trafficked moderate classic.
As we were tying in a woman came trail running up to us and started putting on climbing shoes. No words were spoken until I blurted out, "You've just gotta promise not to fall on us, okay?", possibly could have been slightly more sensitive. I was surprised to hear her respond very rudely, "What the fuck, that's the second person today that's said some shit comment like that." And went on to describe the other occurance. Essentially, I was trying to ask questions with, hopefully obvious answers, like "Have you climbed this before?", "Do you do this often?" etc...Merely trying to gauge her as a climber.

The point of this post is merely to hear some other thoughts about soloing in a vague "ethics of soloing" type of aspect. I'm not asking whether or not people think soloing is appropriate or not, its not cut and dry, its a well calculated, almost spiritual thing to many. That said, I would like to tell you my process when I solo:

1. If people are at the base, I always ask whether they (a.) Mind if I go ahead of them and (b.) If they mind if I climb above/around them with no safety equipment.

Some people don't want to be put in a situation where they could possibly (even if the climber has done this a thousand times and has pure confidence in his/her ability) witness a death and/or be uncomfortable with the possibility of a person falling on them.

2. I also don't assume I can go to a classic on a weekend and cut in line to solo above multiple groups. Start a conversation, most people don't mind.

Essentially, I felt that this womans response was not only inappropriate, but it was simply selfish in the context of the response of itself and also the approach she had to the situation.

I'm hoping not to get a bunch of hate towards soloers comments but to hear a spectrum of thoughts on this, and similar topics, from soloists, non-soloists, long-time climbers and beginners alike.

Thank you for your thoughts in advance.

justin dubois · · Estes Park · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 525

Not one single person, living or dead, cares about YOUR process when you solo.

just smile and let her by next time

Max McKee · · Monterey, CA · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 35

I would say it's pretty fucked up to even mention falling to somebody about to attempt a free solo. I would be pissed off too!!!

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

I'm sure she was long gone before you finished getting ready. If you can't say something nice....

Andy Nelson · · Fort Collins, Colorado · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 336

I've been passed on many routes at Lumpy and in the Park by soloists. It ain't a big deal.

And yeah your comment was kinda messed up.

christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306

i think it is very rude and selfish to solo around other climbing parties.

god forbid something happens,

you want dozens of climbers to witness your death?

you want to scar all those people for life, and most likely end several peoples interest in climbing?

Would be a very bad way to leave a mark, in society and on the ground.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Seth Hogan wrote: Essentially, I was trying to ask questions with, hopefully obvious answers, like "Have you climbed this before?", "Do you do this often?" etc...Merely trying to gauge her as a climber.
If you weren't satisfied with her answers, what did you plan to do?
Call the Crag Police?
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

I have solo'ed a few routes. But if a party was at the base I have asked if I could start up. As such, if the climber in question failed to even acknowledge the other party and assumed they would just go they deserved a comment. Not sure I would say what the OP said but saying something was in order.

christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306
caughtinside wrote: Pretty ignorant. I've scraped up a couple trad climbers who have decked and helped them best I could.
am i the one being ignorant, or are you??? you don't think your actions affect other peoples lives, or you just plain don't care?

I never said anything about not soloing, do what you want, but saving people from watching a gruesome death seems like a pretty basic human concept.

there are plenty of routes, crags, and times of day where you can go and not see other people.

That's why it is SOLO right, meaning just you, by yourself...
christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306

just for the record,

I have had 2 friends die in soloing accidents.

so it hits close to home, and it just ain't worth it.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
John Tex wrote: If you aren't comfortable seeing a soloist then once again, climbing might not be for you.
There are very rare times when I'm not comfortable around another climbing party, whether it's a soloist or folks partnered up.
In that case, I go sonmewhere else. I don't need to see any tragedies.
After 45 years of it, I'm kind of sure that climbing is for me.
Joe Auer · · Utah · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 375

I never liked soloing around or past other climbers. Whenever I did it I felt like a pretentious show off that left me feeling a bit gross afterwards. I'd rather just wait until they're gone or go find something else to climb.

christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306
Joe A wrote:I never liked soloing around or past other climbers. Whenever I did it I felt like a pretentious show off that left me feeling a bit gross afterwards. I'd rather just wait until they're gone or go find something else to climb.
thank you Joe,

much respect
Kyle Fowler · · Jackson, MS · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 25

This is me soloing m.facebook.com/story.php?st…

mason boos · · fo co · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 25

i mean fuuucck.

J C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 477

I don't like soloing around others (kinda takes away from the 'solo' part), but it doesn't stop me. The proximity of other climbers/observers may stop me from soloing something that I haven't soled before or something that is 'hard' for what I solo. But on routes I have dialed or on grades that I'm super comfortable on, I often times solo in from of many people.

I'll often wait for others to leave if I can, partially because I don't like talking to others (hence the soloing). If there was a party gearing up at the base of a multipitch route I want to solo, I would ask if I could get on in front of them, but many climbers that climb roped on the grades I solo will take longer to put on their harnesses than I will take to climb a pitch, so if I'm confident I will not be in their way I'd just go for it.

On route, when come up on a party, is the time for polite conversation and jointly deciding where it is safe to pass. It's no different than if I was part of a roped party that wanted to pass.

I've had many comments from others in the vein of the OP. They tend to make me want to be rude in response, and I don't like that headspace when I'm getting ready to solo. I either avoid talking with anyone (see above), or put in my earbuds and ignore everyone (as long as I'm not in anyone's way who was there first).

To the comments regarding soloing around others-- believe me, the soloist wants to not die more than you want to not see someone die. If you don't want to watch someone solo, then don't; soloists aren't out to "scar you for life," and would probably rather you weren't watching anyway. I would second that if you have problems with the possibility of death resulting from climbing, maybe climbing isn't for you. It makes sense that the loss of friends might affect one's decision whether or not to climb or solo oneself, but that does not make it rude or selfish to solo around others.

jason.cre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 10

If you are endangering someone by potentially falling ON THEM (or knocking choss on them), I think it is a very different issue than if you are endangering their mental health by falling in front of them.

To the first, I think the free soloer would be in the wrong by passing you and putting you at risk as a second without consulting with you first. But if its the second....not such an issue. In any case I guess you shouldnt talk about death, injury, mangelement to anyone about to put their life on the line like that.

Pretty much all of the above is related to multipitch (which based on the circumstances I assumed was the case?). If some brah-bro-braj-broo runs ahead of you and hops off the one pitch you are roping up for before you start, who cares?

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
christoph benells wrote: but saving people from watching a gruesome death seems like a pretty basic human concept.
So why don't lead the way and NEVER climb in the presence of non-climbers? For that matter, ice climbing is sketchy as shit, so you know, why not stop using it as your profile photo?

That said, there was this one time I thought a soloist was pretty inconsiderate: soloing a route with fresh flowers at the base left by family of a deceased climber (decked off the route a few weeks prior), and then proceed to deck in the presence of the said family. That was pretty fucked up...
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422

Soloing and ethics are an odd pairing, maybe soloing etiquette would be closer to the mark.

When the venue of moderates as been narrowed down due to closures then you should probably not be too surprised if a soloist shows up for a lap or two - happens around here all the time. Not usually an issue except for when it's an easier route with novices on it who can barely deal with the route let alone someone soloing past them.

If you find yourself in that position as a soloist you should consider trying to put their minds at ease and reassure them that what you're doing is relatively safe with your experience and that what they are doing is still quite a real challenge for where they're at.

On the flipside if you're the roped climbers, understand that when a soloist shows up to a route the odds of them walking away is pretty damn slim so the best thing to do is let them go and don't do anything to shade their mood. If one comes up behind you on a route then the odds are good there'll be places for you and / or them to wait and negotiate a good place to pass. Again, remain calm, be polite but spare with your words unless they engage you and they'll quickly be on their way.

And don't sweat the 'falling on us' thing - it isn't going to happen.

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155
Allen Sanderson wrote: But if a party was at the base I have asked if I could start up. As such, if the climber in question failed to even acknowledge the other party and assumed they would just go they deserved a comment. Not sure I would say what the OP said but saying something was in order.
+1
It might have been better for the OP to say something like 'have you climbed this route before'. However, the soloist could have controlled the tone of the conversation by broaching the subject. If someone assumed they could budge in front of the line because they have no rope, I'd might say something stupid too.
simplyput . · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 60
"You've just gotta promise not to fall on us, okay?"
You're an asshole. I've been accused (and rightly so) of saying some pretty insensitive shit to people, but christ man ...
If she was going to move faster than your party (and she was), the appropriate comment would have been, "Why don't you go on ahead of us?"
Her response seems perfectly justified, even benign considering your transgression.
What made you think your comment was appropriate? Bruised chauvinist ego?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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