Cigarettes and climbing courtesy.

Courageously telling someone that they sound like a moron is not hate speech.

I am defending women climbers all over the world right now.

The origins of this thread are hateful, and I mock it.

So I am hateful??

It's a conspiracy. I should not have smoked that second rock.

I will be going to bed now, in about 48 hours.

Owen David's bold stance on smoking has inspired me, the offending smoker in question, to contact the land managers responsible for Texas canyon regarding my shameful and reckless behavior. The loss of access to a single crag is a small price to pay to combat the smoking epidemic that is destroying the climbing community.

I've been informed via email by the land managers of Texas canyon that all smokers found within 500 yards of any climbing route or access trail in the area will be arrested and summarily flogged in in front of the Santa Clarita county courthouse.

Wow, an additional page of posts since I fired up my laptop. Y'all need some real issues to worry about.

Seth Derr wrote: I don't think it's rude to ask but I also think said person is well within their rights to tell you to get fooked.

Smoking isint actually a legal right, it's a privilege. There are no laws that explicitly state that an individual has a legal right to smoke, nor are there any laws saying retailers are required to sell smokes to you. However, there are over a thousand state, county, city and local laws, ordinances, regulations and statutes giving non-smokers legal rights against smoke inhalation in the form of smoking bans in everything from public transportation to commercial buildings to city parks.

Disaster Franklin wrote:Owen David's bold stance on smoking has inspired me, the offending smoker in question, to contact the land managers responsible for Texas canyon regarding my shameful and reckless behavior. The loss of access to a single crag is a small price to pay to combat the smoking epidemic that is destroying the climbing community. I've been informed via email by the land managers of Texas canyon that all smokers found within 500 yards of any climbing route or access trail in the area will be arrested and summarily flogged in in front of the Santa Clarita county courthouse.

Hey Bud,
I said the people I encountered were "cool" and the question I asked was if WE were being rude. You shouldn't be taking personal offense by referencing all of the other subjective banter here that didn't pertain to your encounter. Sounds to me like you had a great time at the crag and that's what we all want. I'm sure some crusty old dudes could have told you to turn off the music, move your tent among other things. Sounds like they just wanted a temporary repose from the lung darts and were greatfull for your consideration. You are the best example of diplomacy. You granted a request from fellow climbers and compromised by vaping. Good time had by all. Do you regret that decision? I don't understand all of your sarcasm.
For the record look at #2 that pertains to your spot, Texas Canyon
fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DO…
I'm not saying it was me at your spot, but I hope we're good.

No shit, didnt realize owan is the guy who started the thread about the nEgro Girls route in Josh -guy has got to be a TROLL!!!! Nobody is that much of a whiney bitch!!! Cant wait to see what he's offended by next maybe being called a BITCH because thats offensive to women who arent little crybaby TROLLS!!!!

20 kN wrote: Smoking isint actually a legal right, it's a privilege. There are no laws that explicitly state that an individual has a legal right to smoke, nor are there any laws saying retailers are required to sell smokes to you. However, there are over a thousand state, county, city and local laws, ordinances, regulations and statutes giving non-smokers legal rights against smoke inhalation in the form of smoking bans in everything from public transportation to commercial buildings to city parks.

You don't seem to understand what rights are. They are not created by government defining them. The state uses documents such as the constitution to describe which rights are inalienable, but more importantly and unsaid is which rights they allow themselves to infringe upon.
You own yourself.

20 kN wrote: Smoking isint actually a legal right, it's a privilege.

Mike Lane wrote: You don't seem to understand what rights are.

20 kN has an understanding of rights as typically defined in most of Europe where rights were slowly bequeathed to the people by monarchs and aristocracies over 200+ years.

Mike, your definition of rights, that you would begin by assuming things as rights, is the Classic Liberal Age of Enlightenment notion of Natural Law ( U.S. Constitution). That understanding has become old fashioned.

20 kN wrote: Smoking isint actually a legal right, it's a privilege. There are no laws that explicitly state that an individual has a legal right to smoke, nor are there any laws saying retailers are required to sell smokes to you. However, there are over a thousand state, county, city and local laws, ordinances, regulations and statutes giving non-smokers legal rights against smoke inhalation in the form of smoking bans in everything from public transportation to commercial buildings to city parks.

I don't think he said anything about a right to smoke but, rather, a right to tell someone else to fuck off.

CRAG-list-KILLA wrote:Lol I'm not just gunna hit someone for no reason lol....

Hitting someone because they politely asked you if you would refrain from smoking in their vicinity *is* hitting someone for no reason. It would also be considered assault.

I believe that would be battery, Marc801.

20 kN wrote: Smoking isint actually a legal right, it's a privilege. There are no laws that explicitly state that an individual has a legal right to smoke...

Until something is made illegal by government legislation, it is legal. Old quote: Show me the law that's says I can't, not the one that says I can. Do you truly believe you need the government's permission to do all the things you choose to do? For example: There's no law saying rock climbing is legal.

BigFeet wrote:I believe that would be battery, Marc801.

The hitting, yes. In many jurisdictions it would be both, ie: a single crime.
More: criminal-law.freeadvice.com…

Adam Stackhouse wrote: I don't think he said anything about a right to smoke but, rather, a right to tell someone else to fuck off.

When someone is smoking where its prohibited, put it out and move on. When it's endangering thousands of acres of wildlife, people's homes,and fire fighters lives then doesn't it seem rather immature and selfish for someone to be so self indulgent? Never mind a $5,000 fine and up to six months in jail. Texas Canyon was closed for a year and a half after the last fire a few years back. It's a windy tinder box waiting to ignite. Common sense and courtesy goes a long way.

Jim Turner wrote: You picked two bad examples with candles and incense. Candles: alternet.org/environment/5-…

Love how you ignore the second hand smoke issue. Ignorance is bliss.

Cigarette smoking causes about one of every five deaths in the United States each year.1,6 Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following:1

More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
278,544 deaths annually among men (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
201,773 deaths annually among women (including deaths from secondhand smoke)

Cigarette smoking causes premature death:

Life expectancy for smokers is at least 10 years shorter than for nonsmokers.1,2
Quitting smoking before the age of 40 reduces the risk of dying from smoking-related disease by about 90%.2
Secondhand Smoke and Death

Exposure to secondhand smoke causes an estimated 41,000 deaths each year among adults in the United States:1

Secondhand smoke causes 7,333 annual deaths from lung cancer.1
Secondhand smoke causes 33,951 annual deaths from heart disease.1

CRAG-list-KILLA wrote:No im not a bitch but if someone is gunna try telling me not to smoke outside where its totally legal todo so I'm gunna stick dude in his teeth and then we will see who's bitch. Do what u want, just hope it's not to someone like me that's sick of hearing you pussies complain about something someone does

You're forking out all that $$ to make greedy corporations richer at the expense of you personal health. You're so punk rock, what a rebel. And you'll even physically fight people (again risking your health) to protect their scheme drug you and turn you into an addict...and possibly break fire code laws in national, state parks. Definition of a tool. That makes them your pimp and you their bitch.

Dang Owen David, are you the Surgeon General!?!?! Welcome to Mountain Project! Are you just on here killing time because there's not a lot to do in this lame-duck year of the administration or what?

owen david wrote: ... You're so punk rock, what a rebel.. Definition of a tool.

What happened to hyperboles and personal attacks aside?

Right...just because something is a known carcinogen doesn't mean it's a big deal in the quantities that you're getting it. If people still live mostly normal lives smoking packs of cigarettes a day, it is simply ludicrous that being outdoors next to someone smoking a cigarette is going to raise your chances of cancer enough to be worth bitching about. Have you ever been indoors with someone smoking? It's so much worse than catching a whiff of someone doing it outdoors. Not all passive smoke exposures are the same. If you don't like it, fine - probably none of the people on this thread who think you should mind your own business like it either (I certainly don't), but don't get your panties in a wad about people endangering your life by daring to smoke in your presence when you're out there rock climbing.