New Gunks Campground Experience -The Good, Bad and the Ugly

Marc801 wrote: Do whatever you want. Go or don't. I don't care. I no longer live in the area or climb there or have any strong desire to do so and haven't for 16 years. Just. Stop. The. Incessant. Complaining. ...or at least do so from a factual base. ...or take it up with the people who can actually change things.

But please, don't stop complaining about complaining, or even better, complaining about people complaining about people complaining.

JeanGClimbs- Thanks for the honest and thoughtful post.

As for a lot of what followed...
Good Grief.
What a shit show.
What is it that you sarcastic trolling nitwits actually GAIN from puking your ridiculous comments all over threads like these?
Are you just getting a cheap laugh out of your own perceived wit?
Do you truly feel that negatively about people in general?
Are you campaigning on the side of dirtier toilets and showers?
How many other forums on the internet do you hit up every day looking for new posts to make shitty comments on?
Of these, your habitual trolling grounds, where does MP stand? Is this your first stop?
Do you ever make real, insightful, or useful additions on sites like this? Or just snarky BS?
Do you ever actually flaunt the same disrespectful attitude person-to-person in real life?
Or do you shy away from conflict? Are you a pushover at work or in your relationship?
Is that why you do this?

Lots of questions, I know.
Just curious.

Anyway, don't let me down now!
Go ahead and tear this post apart you trolling, cowardly pricks!

Marc801 wrote: So what? If it weren't the Gunks, it would be some other area.... Travel costs are somewhat constant for any given person and obviously the total depends on where they live. You can't really include that in the cost to climb since it varies so hugely between people. You just have to decide for yourself if it's worth it to you. If not, climb elsewhere, but don't include that in your cost analysis and then complain about how the Gunks is the most expensive climbing area. Again, if it's that big a deal, move closer. Get a vehicle that's cheaper to operate. Avoid the toll roads. Eat out less often. Regarding the cost of camping, sure, the new absence of free camping is definitely an increase in weekend costs. Limiting the geographical area to the northeast, how many world class climbing areas have free camping reasonably close where you can leave your tent and stuff during the day and hope to find it all still there when you get back in the evening? As has been mentioned in a lot of other discussions, do you know what a day of skiing, golf, or Disneyland costs?

LOL, so when I claim the Gunks are the most expensive crag, it doesn't matter because some place has to be. But the cost of a day on the golf course is relevant? I guess in a way I can see your point a weekend at the Gunks is closer in cost to a day on the golf course than a weekend climbing just about anywhere else in NE. FYI, its still the most expense crag without including any travel costs.

You do make some good points though. Tomorrow I will talk to my wife about quitting her job so we can be closer to Gunks. I expect that conversation to go real well.

frank minunni wrote:Frank I understand what you're saying but this sort of behavior just seems to be more prevalent all the time. It's disheartening really. The danger in not taking these kind of people to task is that others won't want to state an opinion or observation for fear of being harassed. It does seem like some are not doing a very good job of following Guideline #1. But I do appreciate that there are plenty of good folks here. PS: Don't call me thoughtful and intelligent. I have a reputation to live down to.

Hey Frank,
Your thoughtful and intelligent, thoughtful and intelligent, thoughtful and intelligent. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm very glad to run across this recent post of yours. It informs me that you're on this side of the green grass.
Regarding this current thread, let not your heart be troubled. Suffice it to say honor and decorum are elusive commodity in today's environment.
( you're right medic741 - thanks)
C Boy

^what the actual fuck. Just spent a week in RRG with millennials and only met really great, respectful folks taking some time off from school who had frequent discussions of climbing ethics and access issues. So I'm going to call your bullshit here. Oh and come to a trail day in a park sometime and see how many millennials are out there taking care of the trails you use...

Eric8 wrote: However, the Gunks are without question the most expensive climbing area in the country. As a result rarely go to the Gunks. A weekend in the Gunks costs $34 in day passes + $19 for camping + $18 in tolls for me, that is $71 without factoring gas. If I bought a pass and went frequently enough it to us it would quickly become the most expensive thing in climbing for me.

Wha wha whaaaaaaaat? You're saying that a five star climbing area with hundreds of classic moderates that is less than two hours from the biggest city in the USA is also the most expensive? I had no idea!

Oh, I understand the reasons why. Thing is when there was free camping I could justify paying for the pass because the camping was free...now not so much. Honestly, don't really miss it yet though. You guys and gals have fun.

J Q wrote: But please, don't stop complaining about complaining, or even better, complaining about people complaining about people complaining.

Are you complaining?

Morgan Patterson wrote: Are you complaining?

Yes it's raining

Bill Kirby wrote: Yes it's raining

climb some....

I do wish there were an option on day passes for people on a yearly trip of 5 days or less. My thinking would be a sort of "punch pass" in a 3-day and 5-day version. The passes would be for one person only, non-transferable, and for consecutive days.

Since a climbing pass currently costs $95, I would suggest the 5-day cost $50, and the 3-day cost $35(although that breaks down with a "devil's number of 666 in the change, and would surely be proof that the MP is the Beast in disguise).

No refunds for days unused, no replacement for lost passes, and must show Id which matches name on pass upon entry.

But, it's not just as simple as saying "do it," and there are many things much higher on the "to do" list than a solution to infrequent visitor complaints about cost, unfortunately.

One thing that people may not be aware of is the new(last year) Rewards Program that MP membership has. mohonkpreserve.org/member-r… So if you are a member, you might already be patronizing one the the businesses that offers discounts. Also, new in the Visitor Center and decent snacks(bars, jerky's trail mixes, cold drinks) which are discounted for MP members. I have no idea what the cost is in comparison to local stores or bringing from your home, but if you haven't stopped in to the VC in a while, might be something to find out about.

I go to work for the week and come back to see this thread really does suck

Derek Jf wrote:I go to work for the week and come back to see this thread really does suck

Mr. Personality is back.

I stayed here over the weekend, thought it was nice. Everything was clean when I was there. Not the cleanest, but pretty much consistent with other campgrounds I've been to. The sites are nice but like others said the tent platforms are small.. you could fit 1 bigger tent on it or maybe 2 2-person tents. I would go back. If I had to pay the full $38 instead of the Mohonk member price I probably wouldn't though mainly because I'm cheap, nothing to do with the campground itself.

I wonder what would happen if everyone just started using camp slime and/or MUA again all at once? The Occupy Wall Street protesters camped out in Zuccotti Park for 2 months. Not suggesting, just genuinely curious what the reaction would be. There seems to be enough people that agree on the new campground being ridiculously overpriced that they might come together to take on 'the man.' Maybe that's the way to really make your voices heard.

Mike Hazard wrote:Maybe that's the way to really make your voices heard.

Or get arrested.

Keep in mind that the rangers are only enforcing the rules, they don't make them. This would only make their lives more difficult, and ultimately the rules would go unchanged for the near term since there is no quick way of changing them.

These changes have been coming for several years. The fact the solution doesn't satisfy everyone is not new, either.

I would say there's bigger problems in the world (like Occupy's causes) that could use that energy behind it. The time for changing this outcome has come and gone. The best course for protesting the changes is simply to not use the new campground, climb elsewhere, etc. Something tells me that for every disgruntled climber there's three more getting exposed to climbing in a gym who will soon be taking their place in line at Madame G's. In other words - no one gives a shit if we don't like it.

Mike Hazard wrote:I wonder what would happen if everyone just started using camp slime and/or MUA again all at once? The Occupy Wall Street protesters camped out in Zuccotti Park for 2 months. Not suggesting, just genuinely curious what the reaction would be. There seems to be enough people that agree on the new campground being ridiculously overpriced that they might come together to take on 'the man.' Maybe that's the way to really make your voices heard.

Yes, because overpriced and limited camping is the exact same thing as nearly collapsing the US economy.

What's happened is that proximity now costs, and free camping is no longer close. There are two MUA's about 20 miles away:

The Hemlock Ridge MUA is about 19 miles (1/2 hr.) from the Trapps. google.com/maps/dir/Mohonk+…@41.6885031,-74.1850221,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x89dd21d9083f20cb:0x5e4c47d4ce5005a9!2m2!1d-74.198559!2d41.737146!1m0

About the same distance and driving time in the other direction is the Shawangunk Ridge State Forest MUA. google.com/maps/dir/Mohonk+…@41.6909512,-74.3546993,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x89dd21d9083f20cb:0x5e4c47d4ce5005a9!2m2!1d-74.198559!2d41.737146!1m0

rgold wrote:What's happened is that proximity now costs, and free camping is no longer close. There are two MUA's about 20 miles away: The Hemlock Ridge MUA is about 19 miles (1/2 hr.) from the Trapps. google.com/maps/dir/Mohonk+…@41.6885031,-74.1850221,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x89dd21d9083f20cb:0x5e4c47d4ce5005a9!2m2!1d-74.198559!2d41.737146!1m0 About the same distance and driving time in the other direction is the Shawangunk Ridge State Forest MUA. google.com/maps/dir/Mohonk+…@41.6909512,-74.3546993,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x89dd21d9083f20cb:0x5e4c47d4ce5005a9!2m2!1d-74.198559!2d41.737146!1m0

With any luck, this should quell the "there's no free camping at the Gunks" complaints.....
Nah.
What was I thinking?