Something to think about...

So I was on Facebook the other day and came across an article that said 5.11d is harder than 12a. What are yalls thoughts on this? If it's true... Does that mean it's true for all d routes??

This is gunna get good...

Eli lines wrote:So I was on Facebook the other day and came across an article that said 5.11d is harder than 12a. What are yalls thoughts on this? If it's true... Does that mean it's true for all d routes??

Of course it's true that there are some 5.11d routes that are harder than some 5.12a routes, and yes this will be true for all "d" routes. That being said, in my experience most 5.12a routes are harder than most 5.11d routes, and similarly with other number grades as well.

5.8
5.9
5.10a
5.10b
5.9+
5.10c

and so on.

I believe this topic was covered definitively by the late Brutus of Wyde (Bruce Bindner) who observed the canonical sequence of increasing difficulty:

5.11a
5.10d
5.11-
5.11b
5.11
5.11c
5.9 squeeze
5.11+
5.10 OW
5.12a
5.11d

Humor aside, depends on what you're good at! Could just be the local flavor, but it seems to me like 5.11 is the land of the crimps and 5.12 is the land of the slopers & pinches. If you're really good at pinches but can't crimp very well...

Same as how my first OW was a white-knuckle terror, despite only being a vedauwoo 5.9 ;)

I actually heard someone talking about this this weekend.

The idea is if the setter is a very strong climber setting a route below his grade he's more inclined to sand bag it. At the same time, a less strong climber will tend to bump the route grade. So you get strong climber's calling harder routes 11d, and weaker climbers calling routes 12a.

I believe the concept is that the stronger setters are less inclined to rate a route an a, so there are more "easy" 12a's and more "hard" 11d's.

It could also be a mental aspect. you expend "hard" from a d rating, and "easy" from an a rating, even if the number grade is one higher. Same reason 11.99 sound's more appealing than 12.00 maybe?

Who knows if it's true. It's all subjective anyway.

I climbed a 5.7 as a "warmup" the other day that I thought had 5.9 or 5.10a moves (and apparently so did other's after reading the route comments).

11d it is just an angry 12a

I was on a 11c this weekend at shelf that for me felt like 10d but I still think the climb is 11c. The guy that climb it before me barely made the move after several tries and I know he is stronger climber than I am.

I think it depends on the area and on era they put the climb. At shelf I think there is pretty distinct difference between 11s and 12a

What's a setter, isn't that a dog breed?

I can think of a few areas where 11d and 12a could be merged into one grade. And 12d/13a while we're at it...

I think it's about time we left the numbers at home and started to focus on the rocks

All climbing is subjective...nuff said. What is easy for me, will probably be hard for you.

Jake C wrote:I think it's about time we left the numbers at home and started to focus on the rocks

climbing friend,

No, numbers most important, make you feel yourself quite good! There is no other reason for climbing your rocks. However, it is yes quite fun to pretending you don't care about grades though, and attempt the making others feel poorly about this! Alternately, you may pretend you don't care about advance gradings, to justify your own eternal mediocrity, pretending you are above it all.

Yes, of course it is true most 11d harder than 12a. You may well forget about 11d route and just go straight the 12a.

Just follow your heart. That's what I do.

Might as well start sub-categorizing the sub-categories if grade is sooooooooo important.

5.11a
5.11a.1
5.11a.2
5.11a.3
5.11a.4
5.11b
5.11b.1
5.11b.2
5.11b.3
5.11b.4

or the V scale
V9
V950
V955
V10
V1050
V1055
V11
V1150
V1155

Just climb and have fun!

Super Fluke wrote:Might as well start sub-categorizing the sub-categories if grade is sooooooooo important. 5.11a 5.11a.1 5.11a.2 5.11a.3 5.11a.4 5.11b 5.11b.1 5.11b.2 5.11b.3 5.11b.4 or the V scale V9 V950 V955 V10 V1050 V1055 V11 V1150 V1155 Just climb and have fun!

climbing friend,

I see you caring about your gradings, ho ho!

Aleks Zebastian wrote: climbing friend, I see you caring about your gradings, ho ho!

Zing!

Larry DeAngelo wrote:I believe this topic was covered definitively by the late Brutus of Wyde (Bruce Bindner) who observed the canonical sequence of increasing difficulty: 5.11a 5.10d 5.11- 5.11b 5.11 5.11c 5.9 squeeze 5.11+ 5.10 OW 5.12a 5.11d

That seems right to me.

Eli lines wrote:So I was on Facebook the other day and came across an article that said 5.11d is harder than 12a. What are yalls thoughts on this? If it's true... Does that mean it's true for all d routes??

True for ALL "D" routes.

That "d" thing is what I'm always wary of for sure.
I know when I was climbing 9s and 10s, those "9+" routes in the Gunks scared the shit out of me way more than a 10a or b.

Just think of it like this....

If you do a new route and call it 5.11... and your peers come along and its really a 5.10... your peers will say that you "SPRAYED".

One never wants their climbs to be down rated...

Think about this: Why, at some places, the opening moves are not part of the rating of the climb? (think Josh)

Guy Keesee wrote:Just think of it like this.... If you do a new route and call it 5.11... and your peers come along and its really a 5.10... your peers will say that you "SPRAYED". One never wants their climbs to be down rated... Think about this: Why, at some places, the opening moves are not part of the rating of the climb? (think Josh)

I agree. I never wanted one of my routes downgraded.