Moving to NYC... Gyms?

Hey all -

Moving to NYC at the end of this summer... wondering what people think of BKB vs The Cliffs at LIC? I lead in the 12s and boulder V6/7.

Definitely interested in meeting people to get out to the Gunks as well. Have some trad experience, but definitely still learning.

Thoughts on the two places route setting? Community?

Thanks!

I used to maintain memberships to both, and you should definitely visit both to compare them, though you'll probably just be joining the one that's most convenient to you based on the subway.

What follows is just an opinion that everyone and their dog probably disagrees with. YMMV.

BkB (the brooklyn location) has much better bouldering. The roped routes are, in my opinion, about one letter grade harder than at the Cliffs, and for lack of a better way to describe it are set with more complex three dimensional movement on shorter walls. Leading is limited and generally starts around 5.10.

The Cliffs has taller walls, a brighter space, and almost every wall is set with draws for leading, and starts at 5.5 (though the lead test is harder). The routes feel simpler, and at least to my brain revolved around whether or not you could perform the move (small hold, awkward hold, etc) rather than could you work out what to do.

I would boulder more at BkB, and probably more because of that than any other reason found it more social. FWIW, I ended up enjoying climbing at the Cliffs more just because I enjoyed being able to lead more routes.

I think the Cliffs is better for both roped and bouldering, as well as for training devices. The training area is significantly better developed. The routes and boulders are simpler, but I never found that the BKB "complexity" was appropriate for improving on real rock. I think that in the gym, it's best to refine basic techniques rather than to work out complicated beta because the process is not easily translatable to outdoor bouldering. I'd rather just get dumb strong in the gym and the Cliffs promotes that much better (boulders tend to be specific types - pinchy, crimpy, etc. so those particular skills are easier to work on in isolation).

I am likely switching to BKB because I am moving near there, but I will install a hangboard and campus board in my apartment. I think location is the only good reason for choosing it.

Heard BKB had some issues w their fire code and it is kind of a mess to get in there???

BKB is requiring reservations right now; max of one hr 45 mins a day.

brooklynboulders.com/brookl…

From Brooklyn Boulders website:

Leading Climbing is an advanced style of top rope climbing. When lead climbing, the climber uses a harness and lead rope which is anchored from the climber to the top of the route back down to the belayer. When ascending the route, the climber clips quickdraws into the bolts that follow the line of the route and then clips the rope into the quickdraws.

brooklynboulders.com/brookl…

Yes the BKB in Brooklyn would not be a good choice at the moment because of the capacity issues. Has anyone heard about when they might be getting resolved?

Adam

FrankPS wrote:From Brooklyn Boulders website: Leading Climbing is an advanced style of top rope climbing. When lead climbing, the climber uses a harness and lead rope which is anchored from the climber to the top of the route back down to the belayer. When ascending the route, the climber clips quickdraws into the bolts that follow the line of the route and then clips the rope into the quickdraws.

IDK about you guys, but I've always had a great time at MPHC in the city. Awesome bouldering, great community, and sneaky good top-ropes. The space climbs way bigger than it looks!

BkB is good if you wanna be around real climbers and avoid the "scene". It's definitely where the legit trad climbers hang out. And it's so well run! I mean, it's literally *never* a shit show in there.

LIC is way too crowded and nobody's friendly there. I'd avoid it.

;)

City Dweller wrote: BkB is good if you wanna be around real climbers and avoid the "scene". It's definitely where the legit trad climbers hang out. And it's so well run! I mean, it's literally *never* a shit show in there.

City Dweller wrote:BkB is good if you wanna be around real climbers and avoid the "scene". It's definitely where the legit trad climbers hang out. And it's so well run! I mean, it's literally *never* a shit show in there.

BKB: pros--interesting route setting, lots of bouldering. Cons--business run terribly and on weekends the children roam free. gym is also typically very crowded. short walls. (this is the gym I go to most, because I live closeby)

BKB QB: pros--lots of bouldering; the newest gym so the facility looks nice. cons--little roped climbing, very little leading, and run by the same messed up company as BKB.

Cliffs at LIC: pros--tallest walls, lots of leading, nice facility. Cons--grades are softer than bkb, not as interesting routes, fewer boulder problems.

I don't boulder much so if I had my choice I'd pick the Cliffs.

I have been a member on and off at BKB since 2010. Very good bouldering routes and seems like a good bouldering scene, but they could care less about their members who prefer roped climbing, especially lead climbing, which is a complete aside for them. They frequently go several months without resetting the routes, particularly last year while they were busy expanding locations. They did recently add a few autobelays, which is kind of nice for laps when not occupied by a birthday party.

They usually have only 2-3 leads ropes available at a time, which are often all in use. Frankly the owner generally seems to care only about making as much money as possible. I know it's a business, but they have zero loyalty to their long term members and are happy to overcrowd the place with birthday parties and meetup groups etc. without any sort of notice and are usually very unapologetic. Or for instance one of the lead ropes will be shot and they will take weeks to replace it.

I also hear from former staff that they treat their employees like garbage, which is why there seems to be tremendous turnover and you frequently have to deal with incompetent volunteers so good luck getting them to replace the rope or do anything else in a timely manner. Place is also poorly air-conditioned, though that is probably true at the cliffs too.

I do think they set slightly better routes than the cliffs but with the infrequency of resetting and far shorter walls, the cliffs is still FAR SUPERIOR if you are into roped climbing, especially leading.

The only reason I keep going to BKB is because it's close to my house, and I have very limited time to get out to the gym during the week. Virtually all my friends who are at all serious about roped climbing moved on to the Cliffs, which you would think would have helped with crowds but has not.

One slight bonus to BKB - they give annual members two guest passes a month. Cliffs only offers one.

Bkb has a facility in queens and Lic also has outdoor bouldering in dumbo. You'll probably pick whichever one is closest despite features.

ml242 wrote:You'll probably pick whichever one is closest despite features.

Hi All -

We are in the process of looking to open a large climbing gym in Jersey City. It is about 5 blocks from the PATH station. It will have 70-80' ceilings with I believe 65-70 stations. Similarly it will have a training program developed by leading world class climbers for training, aerobics, climbing and weight lifting. They will host seminars at the beginning of each season to help you train for your objectives.

A couple of questions:

1) What do people want most in a gym in the NYC region?
2) Does riding the PATH train "scare" people?
3) Any input on what fair membership rates are i.e. what you are actually willing to pay?
4) What are the most annoying things about the other gyms in the area?

Any other thoughts are appreciated.

My advice is if she compares the prices of things to much smaller cities she's going to have a bad time. 

Dumbo boulders is awesome but it only runs in fair weather. 

They disagree probably because no matter how much they raise the rates the gyms are packed. 

At the cliffs, if a member refers you something special used to happen.  They get a free month or you waive activation or some combination. (Source: was a member a couple of years ago).  I also saw various promos that skipped sign-up fees from time to time.

DaveBaker wrote:

At the cliffs, if a member refers you something special used to happen.  They get a free month or you waive activation or some combination. (Source: was a member a couple of years ago).  I also saw various promos that skipped sign-up fees from time to time.

This is still a thing at the Cliffs.... If someone lists you as a reference, you'll get a free month, but I think it's only after they've been a member for 2 months. If you're going to sign up for a membership, make sure you list a reference! Even if it's a stranger... they'll appreciate it.

Re: the activation fee - I've found that the Cliffs will do a couple of promotions a year where they waive the sign-up fee. The way I've seen it work in the past is that they email a promotional code to people who have climbed at the gym a few times recently but aren't members. I believe there's also an option to sign up and not pay the membership fee, but you lose the ability to "freeze" the membership for periods when you won't be using the gym. If you mention one of these promotions when signing up, you may just have them extend it to you ;-).

As for which is better - I'd say they're both seriously suffering from their own success, but the Cliffs offers more options and is a more reliable option. The Cliffs seems like a more legitimate operation and seems to handle the influx of people relatively well, and I've heard BKB is an absolute mess recently. What others have said about routes is true... The Cliffs has more variety in routes and they're reset more often, though they're grader easier than at BKB (or just about anywhere else in the world). The Cliffs also has Dumbo Boulders (bouldering outdoors under the Manhattan Bridge), which is really great if you're into bouldering and don't mind the noise of the trains overhead. It's especially nice if you climb with friends who aren't gym members, since the day access fee is only $9 (compared to the cliffs, which is something like $30). 

Michael P wrote:

thats true.  my question about the activation fee still stands.  shouldnt these gyms try to gain market share by encouraging new sign ups with introductory rates instead of doing the opposite with a $100 fee?

They do just fine with this model, so why change? It is a standard gym model, for regular gyms, crossfit, etc, so I guess people are used to this idea of "activation fee".

NYC prices are unreal, for gym memberships, as well as everything else. I visit there occasionally, and I really enjoyed BKB's routesetting for bouldering, but the most recent visit was ~2011, before the whole reservation mess. I don't think I could deal with that.